How to make the N/A Faster?? swap mass merge thread
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,672
From: Gerber, CA
Um...no, Bardabe. 
If you want you Z to have more power than your truck, then your going to have to blow on it (add turbos). That F150 is in the ballpark of 500hp at the crank, but the loss through the drivetrain is going to be more than 10%. We usually see approximately 20% through the drivetrain of a Z with a manual tranny. I bet you'll be in the 380-420 HP range at the wheels. Just my .02.
Are we still on a $3k mod budget, because if we are, we're well over that with the mods that you're discussing.
If you want you Z to have more power than your truck, then your going to have to blow on it (add turbos). That F150 is in the ballpark of 500hp at the crank, but the loss through the drivetrain is going to be more than 10%. We usually see approximately 20% through the drivetrain of a Z with a manual tranny. I bet you'll be in the 380-420 HP range at the wheels. Just my .02.
Are we still on a $3k mod budget, because if we are, we're well over that with the mods that you're discussing.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3
no tt conversion
Originally Posted by 91zxtt
If you want you Z to have more power than your truck, then your going to have to blow on it (add turbos). That F150 is in the ballpark of 500hp at the crank, but the loss through the drivetrain is going to be more than 10%. We usually see approximately 20% through the drivetrain of a Z with a manual tranny. I bet you'll be in the 380-420 HP range at the wheels. Just my .02.
Are we still on a $3k mod budget, because if we are, we're well over that with the mods that you're discussing.
Are we still on a $3k mod budget, because if we are, we're well over that with the mods that you're discussing.
To get the same horspower out of a 3.0 liter as a modded & blown 5.4 is not realistic on a $3k budget. Always knew that. But an ecu, air intake, and good exhaust alone will bump a TT to close to 400 crank hp and that should be enough. That Z is a helluva a lot lighter than my truck. That truck is downright sluggish given the hp it has. Most of the modded TT Z's I driven "felt" faster. I'm not into racing really, but when I hit it, I don't like competition for the passing lane.
It all about econmy of dollars. If I can boost performance significantly with a couple extra grand, what's that on a $40k truck? This Z needs a new engine thats $2k on the low side. So what if I spend $3k? Just how much better is it? What will it take?
I actually spoke with Luminar on the phone and we had a candid conversation about the conversion. It's not simple, and runs typically about $7k. Thats a fair conclusion, and too much money for this car. it is not like it was a show car or in perfect condition.
So, the consluion is, keep it NA, bump the exhaust air intake, ecu, injectors and a dry nos system. That should run between 3 & 4k and be plenty of hp.
Thanks for all the advice!
Ruined By Spudz
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 856
From: East Wenatchee, Wa
https://www.zdriver.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8434
Anything you need to know can be answered here.
Anything you need to know can be answered here.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,672
From: Gerber, CA
How much have you read about nitrous oxide? I personally don't like it and don't feel that it should be listed on any modification stage charts. I'll never even think about putting it on my car. It fries the pistons. That is probably the only thing that was somewhat accurately portrayed in Fast and The Furious. NOS shortens the life of your engine.
Last edited by 91zxtt; Jan 11, 2005 at 07:50 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 650
From: Wilmington, NC
Ahhh screw Riz 
If you get your hands on a Slicktop, I would seriously recomend dropping in a Twin Turbo powerplant, that car would deffinately move. And Z1Motorsports out of Georgia does Twin Turbo swaps for about $8,000. Not cheapa by any meansa.
If you get your hands on a Slicktop, I would seriously recomend dropping in a Twin Turbo powerplant, that car would deffinately move. And Z1Motorsports out of Georgia does Twin Turbo swaps for about $8,000. Not cheapa by any meansa.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 372
From: Douglasville, Ga
What year slick top do u have?
I ve got a '92 N/a slicktop and a '92 TT. I am about to do an engine transplant between the two. I ll have a TT Slicktop, and a N/a with Hicas! i am going to do the swap myself, and have Z1 dyno tune the motor when i get done. I am waiting right now to do the swap so that i can build up some money to replace a "few" parts on the engines while they are out. i may also respray the engine bay while they are out too.
Good luck on your swap, post some pics of yours. I am curious to see other slicktops.
I ve got a '92 N/a slicktop and a '92 TT. I am about to do an engine transplant between the two. I ll have a TT Slicktop, and a N/a with Hicas! i am going to do the swap myself, and have Z1 dyno tune the motor when i get done. I am waiting right now to do the swap so that i can build up some money to replace a "few" parts on the engines while they are out. i may also respray the engine bay while they are out too.
Good luck on your swap, post some pics of yours. I am curious to see other slicktops.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 73
From: Lindon Utah
I have a slicktop. Its a 94 with only a few mods, mostly suspension stuff. I wish I could afford to do a tt swap, but $8g's is :bling: that I dont have. My wife just tells me to be :hpydance: with what I have.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 372
From: Douglasville, Ga
I dont see why it costs so much. Thats why i m going to do it. i m 17, and do all my own motor work. Pullin an engine is nothing. The only thing is that i will need to rent a engine hoist, two tranny jack stands, and two engine stands. The rest of the motor work I will do myself. What i cant i get help from a few friends in the automotive business, and do it myself w their guidance. i am **** when it comes to those who work on my car. i trust Z1, but I am tryin to save myself a few bucks. College is soon, and I want this done before then. I am guestimating that if all i do is swp motors, with Nissan parts some performance. I m lookin at about a grand in parts. But if i tear into the motors, then the price goes up. Z1 has the full write up for stuff they have found out with swappin TT-N/A N/A-TT. There are only a few things that I can forsee as being a pain when it comes timw to swap motors.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 650
From: Wilmington, NC
Originally Posted by WhtFairLadyZ
I dont see why it costs so much. Thats why i m going to do it. i m 17, and do all my own motor work. Pullin an engine is nothing. The only thing is that i will need to rent a engine hoist, two tranny jack stands, and two engine stands. The rest of the motor work I will do myself. What i cant i get help from a few friends in the automotive business, and do it myself w their guidance. i am **** when it comes to those who work on my car. i trust Z1, but I am tryin to save myself a few bucks. College is soon, and I want this done before then. I am guestimating that if all i do is swp motors, with Nissan parts some performance. I m lookin at about a grand in parts. But if i tear into the motors, then the price goes up. Z1 has the full write up for stuff they have found out with swappin TT-N/A N/A-TT. There are only a few things that I can forsee as being a pain when it comes timw to swap motors.
But you may be able to get away with this one alright, seeming as your just swaping motors... Who knows.
All I can say is good luck.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 650
From: Wilmington, NC
Just chillin' guys... Been working a lot lately, so I havent been online mucho. So I figured I'd stop by the good old ZDriver.com and see how my fellow Z Car Fanatics have been 
Good news is, I may have a Z by the end of this summer. An actual, working Z. Im trying to get my hands on a 1992+ 300ZX, automatic, 5Speed, Twin Turbo, Non-Turbo... Whatever really, as long as it has good mileage, and is a good shape.
But we'll see...
God, I knew it would happen... Riz has groupies now, haha
Good news is, I may have a Z by the end of this summer. An actual, working Z. Im trying to get my hands on a 1992+ 300ZX, automatic, 5Speed, Twin Turbo, Non-Turbo... Whatever really, as long as it has good mileage, and is a good shape.
But we'll see...
God, I knew it would happen... Riz has groupies now, haha
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 372
From: Douglasville, Ga
What all is there needed to swap a N/A to TT? I m mainly lookin for a list of factory parts..assuming the clutch and what not are still good. I know I will need new power steering lines or something like that. And few other things, but what I dont know. Any help you guys?
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 650
From: Wilmington, NC
Well for the Twin Turbo swap... There are a variety of ways to get it boosting... Let me just list a few ideas I've seen personally.
Full Twin Turbo swap:
The easiest way to go about this, is of course, get a clip. The clip comes with everything you will need to swap the powertrains. Including the things that are often looked over, such as the Twin Turbo radiator, radiator shroud (these are all shaped differential to accomidate for the boost piping) the MAF, sensors... Little things of that nature.
If all of these things aren't in place, the swap wont work as efficiently. When I was in the business, I would see VG30DETT Clips run from $3,000 for a 5Speed Clip, to $2,500 for an Automatic Clip. Not too bad considering the amount of parts you are getting. The clips I handled with, came with everything from the dashboard forward, including the RHD set-up. So you get the engine, transmission, ECU/M (Engine Control Unit/Module) EFI (Electronic Fuel Injection) harness, all sensors, brackets, mounts, intercoolers, miscellanious parts... Everything. Even the body panels.
But as in most clips, tweaking is neccesary to get the car running properly, because chances are, the powertrain has been sitting still for years in some Japanese wreckers yard.
Twin Turbo Transplant :
The most complicated way to go about getting the true-tag, Twin Turbo, isnt too simple... I've seen this done, and although it is cheaper, it is also MUCH more time consuming, and not practical unless you have the proper tools. IF YOU DONT HAVE THE TOOLS, THIS IDEA IS USELESS!
Breaking down a VG30DE to bear block, and swapping in ALL Twin Turbo components, including pistons, crankshaft, connector rods, cams, heads, hardware, sensors... I mean ALL components. Because you've got to think, the compression ratio goes from 10.5:1 (VG30DE) down to 8.5:1 (Twin Turbo)... If you try and cheap it, by simply spacing out the heads with a thicker bronze gasket, it wont last long, and you'll have a serious headache on your hands... Like 91zxtt says 'if you dont have to time to do it right, will you have time to do it over?'
So after you've got everything done in the engine, its time to do your new EFI Wiring. This is virtually impossible to do with the engine in, so its best to accomidate that need
The secure your ECU/M in place, then bolt up the transmission. Slide everything in with a cherry picker, make sure everything is connected, fire it all up, and begin the tuning process... This description does this project NO justice at all, and it is nowheres near as simple as it sounds... So have patience if you choose to take this route, because it a long, trying one.
... But the last option is probably the most ideal...
BUY A TWIN TURBO:
... Kind of self-explainitory, and the most practical...
Now I can understand doing a swap if you have a 2+2 or a Slicktops or a 'Vert. And hell, even if you have a coupe, its a great idea. And I completely understand wanting more dash out of your flash car (hence: You put a lot of money into appearence, and want the horse power to match it)...
But in the case that you simply want a Twin Turbo... Just buy one. Swapping powertrains is not easy, and it is a lot easier just to buy a car, that came stock with everything in place.
One thing I left out, is the gear ratio issue.
Once you have your Twin Turbo powertrain in... You've got to think about the gears in the Rear End as well. A common modification to do for Twin Turbo owners, is to put the Non-Turbo Rear End in (RV200). This is mostly a drag racers modification... The Non-Turbo's RV200 has 4.080 gears, making the launch and over all run much tighter, thus you increase your over all low end speed. 4.080 as opposed to the Twin Turbos 3.270 (RV230) is a hell of a difference. But granted, your over all top speed will decrease drastically. So this set-up would only be for drag racing, or if your into real close turn auto-crossing.
What I've seen once is the Non-Turbos transmission AND Rear-End on a VG30DETT. He stuck some balloon walled slicks on the stock wheels (the car looked over all like a stock 'ok' condition 1990 Coupe Non-Turbo) and the car was running awesome, pulling high to mid 12's with mild modifications. But I bet his top speed as about 130mph haha
Just some interesting things to consider.
Hope this helps a bit... If anyone needs me to elaborate on anything... Just ask.
Full Twin Turbo swap:
The easiest way to go about this, is of course, get a clip. The clip comes with everything you will need to swap the powertrains. Including the things that are often looked over, such as the Twin Turbo radiator, radiator shroud (these are all shaped differential to accomidate for the boost piping) the MAF, sensors... Little things of that nature.
If all of these things aren't in place, the swap wont work as efficiently. When I was in the business, I would see VG30DETT Clips run from $3,000 for a 5Speed Clip, to $2,500 for an Automatic Clip. Not too bad considering the amount of parts you are getting. The clips I handled with, came with everything from the dashboard forward, including the RHD set-up. So you get the engine, transmission, ECU/M (Engine Control Unit/Module) EFI (Electronic Fuel Injection) harness, all sensors, brackets, mounts, intercoolers, miscellanious parts... Everything. Even the body panels.
But as in most clips, tweaking is neccesary to get the car running properly, because chances are, the powertrain has been sitting still for years in some Japanese wreckers yard.
Twin Turbo Transplant :
The most complicated way to go about getting the true-tag, Twin Turbo, isnt too simple... I've seen this done, and although it is cheaper, it is also MUCH more time consuming, and not practical unless you have the proper tools. IF YOU DONT HAVE THE TOOLS, THIS IDEA IS USELESS!
Breaking down a VG30DE to bear block, and swapping in ALL Twin Turbo components, including pistons, crankshaft, connector rods, cams, heads, hardware, sensors... I mean ALL components. Because you've got to think, the compression ratio goes from 10.5:1 (VG30DE) down to 8.5:1 (Twin Turbo)... If you try and cheap it, by simply spacing out the heads with a thicker bronze gasket, it wont last long, and you'll have a serious headache on your hands... Like 91zxtt says 'if you dont have to time to do it right, will you have time to do it over?'
So after you've got everything done in the engine, its time to do your new EFI Wiring. This is virtually impossible to do with the engine in, so its best to accomidate that need
The secure your ECU/M in place, then bolt up the transmission. Slide everything in with a cherry picker, make sure everything is connected, fire it all up, and begin the tuning process... This description does this project NO justice at all, and it is nowheres near as simple as it sounds... So have patience if you choose to take this route, because it a long, trying one.
... But the last option is probably the most ideal...
BUY A TWIN TURBO:
... Kind of self-explainitory, and the most practical...
Now I can understand doing a swap if you have a 2+2 or a Slicktops or a 'Vert. And hell, even if you have a coupe, its a great idea. And I completely understand wanting more dash out of your flash car (hence: You put a lot of money into appearence, and want the horse power to match it)...
But in the case that you simply want a Twin Turbo... Just buy one. Swapping powertrains is not easy, and it is a lot easier just to buy a car, that came stock with everything in place.
One thing I left out, is the gear ratio issue.
Once you have your Twin Turbo powertrain in... You've got to think about the gears in the Rear End as well. A common modification to do for Twin Turbo owners, is to put the Non-Turbo Rear End in (RV200). This is mostly a drag racers modification... The Non-Turbo's RV200 has 4.080 gears, making the launch and over all run much tighter, thus you increase your over all low end speed. 4.080 as opposed to the Twin Turbos 3.270 (RV230) is a hell of a difference. But granted, your over all top speed will decrease drastically. So this set-up would only be for drag racing, or if your into real close turn auto-crossing.
What I've seen once is the Non-Turbos transmission AND Rear-End on a VG30DETT. He stuck some balloon walled slicks on the stock wheels (the car looked over all like a stock 'ok' condition 1990 Coupe Non-Turbo) and the car was running awesome, pulling high to mid 12's with mild modifications. But I bet his top speed as about 130mph haha
Just some interesting things to consider.
Hope this helps a bit... If anyone needs me to elaborate on anything... Just ask.
Last edited by NISMO LMR; Jan 17, 2005 at 08:05 PM.
