jmw_man

Does anybody ever have problems with a dead battery after the car has been sitting for a while?

I found a video on youtube where a guy shows you how to measure the electricity drain.

The guy seems pretty goofy but I made myself a test device just like his and I was able to narrow down my leak somewhat.

My drain was 15.4 mV. The guy in the video mentioned that some late model cars are designed for up to 35 mV battery drain so the 15.4 mV isn't that severe. However, I had 5 now 4 cars to keep up with so my 280ZX has been sitting in my garage for a couple years and I've only pulled it out a handful of times and each time the battery is dead.

Well, I took at look at the "EL Electrical System" section of the FSM and they use the test light mentioned in the youtube video. As the guy in the video said, a test light is only good if you aren't supposed to have any battery drain at all.

Anyways, I started pulling one fuse at a time and measured the battery drain each time. There was no change at all until I got to the "room lamp" fuse at the top right of the fuse box. The battery drain dropped from 15.4 mV to 8.6 mV. Now, on the fuse box itself the upper right fuse is labeled as the "room lamp" fuse, but when you look at the "EL Electrical System" section of the FSM this particular fuse has a multitude of functions; voltmeter, clock, security (room, step, door, edge) lamp, spot lamp, vanity mirror lamp, key illumination, power antenna, radio & deck.

So now I have two problems; 1. I need to find out which in that list is the problem, and 2. I need to find out where the other 8.6 mV battery juice is going.

As for the 6.8 mV battery drain, no, the light isn't left on. I don't have the vanity mirror lamps. I wonder if it's the power antenna because when I first got the car, it worked and now it's not working so I wonder if that has something to do with it.

Best regards,
jmw_man

As for the

jmw_man

One of the other issues I'm trying to tackle is getting the power antenna to work again. I accessed the power antenna connector and messed around with it and the voltmeter. According to page EL-60 of the FSM (assuming I understand it right), I should read battery voltage across pins 3 and 4. I read zero however. What I don't understand is that the side they say to test is on the motor side while the other side is actually coming from the power source so I don't understand why I should expect power on that side. Anyways, the weirdest part is that I wondered if maybe I was supposed to test the other side and I did, across pins 3 and 4 I read .25 volts. I haven't figured out what that means yet.... but, it makes me wonder if there's a short associated to the power antenna and causing the battery drain problem I'm having. I need to find a method for tracking down the short or something...

rogerz

why not invest 5 bucks in a trickle charger from Harbor Freight instead of worrying about a tiny drain. Also helps to take off the ground strap then you have no drain at all. little common sense here might do more than all that mumbo jumbo.

jmw_man

Those really aren't common sense solutions though. The whole point is to be able to get in and go without having to worry about doing stuff to get it started and then driving it. In fact, as it sits right now, it's a fire hazard and I do have the negative disconnected to prevent such a disaster. Electrical problems is not something you want to just disregard. I did some more tests on the battery drain an hour ago and I read a battery drain fluctuation between 30 and 40 mV, then back to 15 mV after shutting the door. The opening and closing of the door did something to change my drain. Also, I pulled the room lamp fuse and the lights went out, but if the door is open it still draws a lot of electricity. I'm wondering if that is supposed to happen.

NismoPick

#1: Do you have an aftermarket or stock radio?

#2: Have you checked the door pins? Just because the interior light ISN'T on, doesn't mean everything is ok. This is the most common battery draining problem on all cars. Most door pins (including the 280zx) have 2+ signal wires. The light circuit might be open, but the door ajar light / other fuction might be grounding out usually due to a smashed or warn out switch.

#3: For the antenna: again, do you have stock or aftermarket radio? The stock radio setup utilizes a switch to bring up the antenna. Most people chop it out when installing an aftermarket radio.

rogerz

if you are really worried about moving in a hurry just hook up a trickle charger. start it up and drive off the wires will pull out. also drains are measured in milliamps not millivolts. the door switches are a good place to look. the antenna switch was to make the antenna go to half mast. the radio signal put it up or down and it went half mast if the switch was set at that.

Twiggs280zx

I was wondering why mine was stopping half way.

jmw_man

#1 Mine's stock, and there are two options, I don't have the radio, I have the stereo that comes with the grand luxury models.

#2 Yea, last night on the couch I was browsing the EL section of the FSM and stopped several times at the door pin page. I told myself that I was going to look at those first thing when I have a chance. After noticing how the drain fluctuates with the closing and opening of the door, as well as noticing how rotted away the protective rubber is around the wiring leading from the body to the door that it wouldn't surprise me if that's causing some of the drain.

#3 I have the stock stereo with the manual antenna control button where I can push it and the antenna would move to one of three positions; fully retracted, fully extended, or half height.

I've been reading my "Haynes Techbook Automotive Electrical Manual" to get a better understanding of figuring out electrical problems. When I can figure out how to pull the stereo out and take a look at the antenna switch I plan to see if it's even sending when it's supposed to be sending.

jmw_man

Drains can be measured in milliamps or millivolts. Engineering 101, V=IR. Volts = current times resistance. I used the 1 ohm resistor to protect my voltmeter. So in essence, anything that I read as millivolt drain is also milliamp drain. Yea, i'll take a look at the door switches next.

Honestly I don't fully remember the details of when, how, what direction the antenna moves, I just know that that it doesn't do anything at all right now. The stereo works just fine though. It picks up some AM stations barely. I'll need to figure out how to pull it out to access the antenna switch connector to see if it's putting anything out.

Twiggs280zx

[QUOTE=jmw_man;328322]#1 Mine's stock, and there are two options, I don't have the radio, I have the stereo that comes with the grand luxury models.QUOTE]

What is the difference? I have the GL and it came with a radio...

FricFrac

Lol a 1 ohm resistor doesn't protect your meter The guy is just using a power resistor as a shunt and measuring the voltage drop across the resistor. Yes - V=IR or in your case I = V/R which would be the current draw which is how you typically refer to the parasitic drain on your system. If you are storing your car for any period of time you would remove the positive battery terminal. That helps increase the life of the battery. I hook a trickle charger once a month for a day to keep the battery topped up. As long as it's not hooked up to the car your battery will stay fairly charged.

jmw_man

[QUOTE=Twiggs280zx;328379]For some reason I was thinking there were two different options due to different pictures in the FSM. They show one radio that looks like it's analog. It even has an antenna trimmer. I'm guessing that trimmer is similar to the push button from one radio to the next?



Fricfrac, I didn't want to have to replace the fuse in my meter. I also didn't want to measure the current unfused.

jmw_man

I think I've figured out what's causing the parasitic drain. In another thread I posted about replacing my battery and alternator because they were bad. After I finished that I measured the drain again. At first I measured between the positive terminal and the positive cable. The meter fluctuated between .02 and .03 amps. Then I hooked up the resistor as previously mentioned in this thread and the meter fluctuated between 20.1 mV and 34.4 mV. This was while ALL FUSES were removed.

Then I started frantically going around looking at all wiring and wiggling them around trying to see if I could make something change. Then at last I was sitting in the driver seat and saw the blinking red light near the hazard flasher switch. I recall last week when I was trying to solve the hazard light problem by accessing the flasher unit and I saw a device that looked somewhat like a motion detector of some type. I even recall mentioning to my wife that I think someone had installed an alarm system on the car sometime in the past. Well today when I saw the blinking red light I realized that the system must still be operational.

Anyways, my next step will be to see about pulling that stuff out. Also, just to make sure, Nissan/Datsun didn't install some random blinking red light near the hazard switch did they? I just want to make sure I'm not going to pull something out that was original with the car.

So, this brings me to my final question. Also during the time that I was beneath the driver side dash, I saw another device that I'm wondering about. It's about 4" x 3" x 1" thick black box. According to the FSM, it has to do with electric door locks. I believe it's the door lock timer box. What's even more weird is that one of the wires coming out of it is some kind of toggle switch. This box isn't even bolted down to anything, it's just kind of hanging loosely in there. Anyways, what I'm having trouble understanding is why I can't find a door lock button anywhere. Right now I just manually lock and unlock the car but the only switches/buttons I have are for the mirrors and the windows. Where is yalls button for the electric door locks? I'm kind of wondering if maybe my car didn't come with the electric door locks but instead the little black box I found is also part of the alarm system.

jmw_man

Okay, that little black box was part of some aftermarket alarm system, along with a horn under the hood which wasn't working anyhow. I ripped it all out. I also have to buy some electrical tape now because they spliced every wire of the alarm system to different wires under the drive side dash rather than just running a wire straight to the battery. Now I have "exposed" wiring where they removed the protective sheath that I need to wrap with electrical tape.

I did a new test. 2.5 mA with all but the room lamp fuse in, and 11.4 mA with all fuses in including the room lamp fuse.

jmw_man

So I've been troubleshooting the antenna (it does not move at all, stuck in down position). A week or so ago I checked the connector at the motor and there was no power.

Today I finally managed to locate the antenna timer. I kept looking for an antenna relay because I saw a reference to an antenna relay in the large wiring diagram in the FSM but on the wiring diagram of just the antenna system it references the antenna timer so I'm guessing they are pretty much the same thing.

Anyhow, I checked the power at the antenna timer.
vehicle off:
Blue w/ red stripe wire goes to fuse panel - 15 volts
Green wire that goes to fuse panel - .2 volts
all else - 0 volts

vehicle running, radio off:
Yellow w/ green stripe wire goes to fuse panel - 15 volts
Green wire that goes to fuse panel - 15 volts
Blue w/ red stripe wire goes to fuse panel - 15 volts
Yellow wire goes to antenna motor - .28 volts
(other) Green wire goes to radio - .46 volts

vehicle running, radio on:
All wires (besides the black ground wire and the yellow wire) had 15 volts

When I turned the radio off, 15 volts were applied to the yellow wire (which lowers the antenna) for about 10 seconds.

Here's the confusing part. I didn't pull apart the dash yet to access the antenna switch. I still need to figure out how to, BUT, I am able to see a connector when I duck down and look behind there from under the glove box. I can see a 4 slot connector with 3 wires going into it.
The three wires are Blue w/ red, Blue w/ white, and Yellow w/ green.

The part I don't understand though is that according to the FSM the Yellow w/ green wire I saw should actually be a Green wire.

Well, I'm not entirely sure, the FSM isn't 100% clear. I know I have the GL model and the wiring diagram I'm looking at shows the wiring for a GL model and a DX model. The wiring I have behind the radio looks much more like the DX model than it does the GL model. So that's kind of weird. Also, for the DX model, the connector they show in the FSM is actually a 3 slot 3 wire connector, not a 4 slot 3 wire connector that I have and it shows for the GL model. It's like, they used the right connector for the GL model but the wire color for the DX model.

The other issue I'm having is that the FSM shows these other two connectors that I'm unsure of the location of. Both of these connectors are large but have few wires coming out of them. One only has two wires (blue and green) and the other has 3 wires (Yellow w/ green, blue w/ red, and blue w/white ). Supposedly both of these are somewhere in the vehicle.

Anyways, long story short, I tested the 3 wires in the 4 slot connector behind the radio, the Yellow w/ green is always 15 volts, and both of the other wires never have power when I push the antenna height switch to switch between half and full lengths.

I guess that means the switch is bad so I'm going to look around for a new one. I just need to figure out how I can better access the area behind the radio....

jmw_man

Twiggs280zx

you can get to the switch by pulling the radio not the dash.

Also, it would be a good idea to keep posting your questions in one thread that way all of your info is in the same place.

jmw_man

Interesting, I didn't realize the old radio just screwed in from the front somehow. I'll have to take a look the next time I'm out there.

I thought about posting all my questions in one place but then I would end up with unanswered questions because people wouldn't see them. I also like to create records for those people who are tackling the same issues as me so I want to make sure they are easy to find.

NismoPick

Good call.

Merged threads since the antenna question was already brought up in previous thread.

The only time questions go unanswered is when they are unclearly stated, or have uber-obvious answers that should not need asking. Since our search feature works quite well, there's no need to make people dig through multiple threads for similar issues.

jmw_man

That's a cop-out statement if I ever saw one. All you have to do is claim stupidity or claim misinformed to peg that one.

Twiggs, I got it. Looks like the radio comes out with the instrument console. That's the terminology Haynes uses. I was thinking the instrument console was simply part of the dash yesterday. You were probably referring to the instrument console as the radio when you said the radio comes out without having to remove the dash.

jmw_man

Update:

I pulled the instrument console and was able to access the power antenna switch.

There are three wires: blue, blue w/ white, blue w/ red.
So somewhere along the way, that yellow w/ green wire changes to blue, I'll have to take a second look.

Engine running and radio off:
no power to any of the wires.

Engine running, radio on, and antenna switch in fully extended mode:
blue wire has 15 volts
blue w/ red has 15 volts
blue w/ white has .06 volts

Engine running, radio on, and antenna switch in half extended mode:
blue wire has 15 volts
blue w/ red has 0 volts
blue w/ white has .06 volts.

When in half extended mode I think the blue w/ white wire should be getting 15 volts. I also don't think it should ever be getting .06 volts.

I played around with the switch, ie, I pushed it in and out several times really vigorously like I did to my hazard switch to see if that did anything. I was able to get the antenna to move to half position eventually, even though it looks like it was closer to quarter position, but, it didn't keep doing it, it went back to being stuck in the fully extended position.

Anyways, I think the switch is pretty much bad. I looked at the soldering and it looks pretty clean. The blue w/ white wire doesn't even look disconnected... I'll have to take a second look at that to make sure there's not a loose connection there or something.

The weird part about the whole thing is how the antenna started miraculously working as soon as I pulled the instrument console out, unscrew the switch from the instrument console, and simply held it in my hand. Then I started the car, turned on the radio, and it worked. It's as if there's more than one loose connection in the switch (both the blue w/ red and blue w/ white wires). I'm just wondering if there's a way to "fix" the switch to save myself $46 and the time waiting for it to come in the mail...

Regards,
jmw_man

FricFrac

NismoPick is one of the most knowlegable (and tolerant - wow some of the stuff he puts up with...) guys for the S130 around and he's been around here for a LONG time. Take most of what he says to heart. 99% of what you need to know is in the FSM and 99% of the weird stuff has been answered here already - it's pretty rare that something hasn't been covered. Electrical stuff is a pain to track down - divide and conquor...

The fuse is for measuring current in your meter. If the fuse is blown you should still be able to read the voltage drop across your shunt...

jmw_man

And that's the reason why I don't like to combine threads...

Anyways, I got a better look behind the radio. Looks like the yellow w/ green wire I found at a connector behind the radio changes directly to a blue wire on the other side of the connector and then the blue goes straight to the antenna switch. So I'm guessing the route is fuse panel (upper left fuse) to yellow/w green wire to connector to blue wire to antenna switch. This doesn't match the wiring diagram. The wiring diagram (page 109) shows these two separate large connectors with very few wires going to them. One has 3, the other has 2 wires, anybody know if these two connectors exist? This is more out of curiosity, I know the switch is bad. I played around with the switch more. I was able to go fully extended and half extended numerous times when I flexed the wires coming out of the switch. It's obvious that the switch has some bad connections inside of it. I'll just have to bite the bullet and buy a new one...

Twiggs280zx

This is my thread that has been going for a year. As you will see I have only had a couple questions go unanswered and I ended up answering them with extra searching.

It is easier for the guys trying to help you to find background on your build.

https://www.zdriver.com/forums/280zx...rogress-35949/

jmw_man

That's a good point about reminding people of the background of your specific car. With different threads on the same car people won't be able to link them together so I see the benefit of having a single thread.

I guess you could say I'm a research junky. When I'm looking for answers, I don't like having to go digging really hard for information that's buried really deep on a specific problem which is the reason why I prefer separate threads for separate topics or projects. Basically, I like creating "records" of experiences on specific things that are easy to find by individuals who simply do searches via search engines like Google and end up with results that lead to threads that are a single page and go straight to the point rather than threads that are multiple pages long which would require them to search page by page and sift through tidbits of info they don't need right now (longest sentence ever). I do it as a service to others (members and non-members).

I suppose I could start doing a progress thread like you instead.

jmw_man

I called a couple salvage yards. As soon as I mention the Z they couldn't help me...
The guy at zcarparts.com said he hasn't seen an antenna switch since 2002. WHAT?

I'm wondering how easy it would be to fix the switch I have now.