Man this car rocks!
08-30-2006, 04:19 PM
#26
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: z junk yard
Posts: 1,271
awww F*&k !!!!! i had ahold of a nissan titen v-8 truck engine for free.. in fact i took off some parts that i thought i could use a huge *** throttle body looks like it has 2 openings... two plates.. then i got all 8 fuel injectors... and harnness... hmm .....
08-30-2006, 04:20 PM
#27
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southaven Mississippi
Posts: 2,053
Exaple of cheap power!!!. A Ford Ranger 2.3L(Mazda) 16V engine (stock 145HP) can produce 300HP for about 1,700$, 400HP with only about 2,500$. Forged Pistion's, Rods, Turbo, Turbo Exhaust, them small things turbo's got, and ECU reprogram. not to shaby for a 4 banger.
08-30-2006, 05:31 PM
#28
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 2,826
Well Brian wrote me back on the Rebello built stroker and all I can say is WOW! I ask him a few questions such as power numbers, cam specs and a few others. Here a few questions I ask him, he responded kindly and quickly. He gave me a dyno sheet also and it is impressive.
What tranny was used?
"Using a 79 NA 5 speed with the 3.32 1st gear ratio"
I don’t mean to pry but what was the total engine cost?
Total cost with Rebello supplying everything was around 8K (this also included new mikuni carbs/linkage/filters). throw another 2K in for flywheel and clutch and misc so about 10K total and Rebello has a lifetime warranty on engine for that cost for us.
Would you have or your son have Rebello build you another engine?
"Wouldn't have anyone do a stroker again for us except Rebello. Yes the cost is very high but you cant beat a lifetime warranty. I think his price has gone up now to about 9K for a total engine with carbs."
"We originally bought this car to put a supercharged V8 in it (which we are doing this winter). But we have had a ton of fun blowing people away with the straight 6. It pisses people off when they lose to us and open the hood and see a carbed 6 cylinder. <--- that is what I want!! My son has never lost a street race in 2 years and hes raced some pretty wicked cars. Even though hes raced some 10 second cars they cannot beat him out of the hole through 1st and 2nd gears and most of 3rd, and on the street most races are not 1/4 mile so its over before the 10 second cars catch him.
Turbo is nice and he actually wanted one after the stroker was done but it never happened."
I will be talking to Rebello and see what options and suggestions they offer...still not set in stone as I see it would take some saving up to go the Rebello direction.
What tranny was used?
"Using a 79 NA 5 speed with the 3.32 1st gear ratio"
I don’t mean to pry but what was the total engine cost?
Total cost with Rebello supplying everything was around 8K (this also included new mikuni carbs/linkage/filters). throw another 2K in for flywheel and clutch and misc so about 10K total and Rebello has a lifetime warranty on engine for that cost for us.
Would you have or your son have Rebello build you another engine?
"Wouldn't have anyone do a stroker again for us except Rebello. Yes the cost is very high but you cant beat a lifetime warranty. I think his price has gone up now to about 9K for a total engine with carbs."
"We originally bought this car to put a supercharged V8 in it (which we are doing this winter). But we have had a ton of fun blowing people away with the straight 6. It pisses people off when they lose to us and open the hood and see a carbed 6 cylinder. <--- that is what I want!! My son has never lost a street race in 2 years and hes raced some pretty wicked cars. Even though hes raced some 10 second cars they cannot beat him out of the hole through 1st and 2nd gears and most of 3rd, and on the street most races are not 1/4 mile so its over before the 10 second cars catch him.
Turbo is nice and he actually wanted one after the stroker was done but it never happened."
I will be talking to Rebello and see what options and suggestions they offer...still not set in stone as I see it would take some saving up to go the Rebello direction.
08-30-2006, 07:33 PM
#31
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
Originally Posted by thxone
I should have clarified that by new I mean bought from a parts store or from a performance shop, rebuilt and not something I would have to pull myself.Block: 1982 L28E F54
Head: 1982 P79 both owned already
Big Bore Kit: MSA part # 10-1202 price $1,799.00
Performance Cam Kit: MSA part # 10-2000 price $549.95 Stage 2 Cam
Clean and Magnaflux block: $150
Clean and Magnaflux head: $80
Bore and Hone Block: $85
3 Angle Valve Job: $120
Header: $50
Full Exhaust: $225
MS estimated high at $500
T5 Rebuilt $1000
Clutch $300 +- $20
Call it $4,860
The L28ET: Block, rebuilt and warrantied $1,200
Head P90A Rebuilt, valve job, peformance cam, ported and pollished warrantied $1,000
Header equal length and coated $700
Turbo T3/T4 $650
IC Stillen $1,139
MS Estimated $500
Tranny, clutch $1,300
Call it $6,500
V8: GM 350 H.O. $2,429.95
Induction Eldelbrock Pro Flo EFI $2,109.95
Tranny GM B&M 700R4 $1,560.50
Custom drive shaft $280
Mounts $299.95
R200...who knows!!
And lots of other small but crucial parts.
Total was a bit over $7,000
I did this so I could actually SEE the prices and sort it out a little better as to the parts needed or wanted but new or warrantied parts were a must as everyone says if you are going to do it do it right. I am still shopping for better prices or better quality parts but this is going to be close to what is needed price wise if this route is takin by me. I am sure I will update my list(s) as I come across better parts or deals or find new nessesary parts but at least I have an idea now as to the cost of the builds. But if I was to go through the hassle of swapping engines I would want better performance above what stock would be for each type hence my choices above. Can you dig it...I knew thatcha could!!
And those are clearly extreme cases. You can find turbo motors in excellent condition with equally good transmission attached to them for far less then $1000. And for what you figured for the total build up for your swap you can pick up a low mileage, super clean turbo car complete and forgo the swap thing altogether
And for the record, I've seen dyno sheets of headers and an exhaust adding well into the double digits in horsepower and torque.
Last edited by jfairladyz; 08-30-2006 at 07:36 PM.
08-30-2006, 07:54 PM
#32
Originally Posted by jfairladyz
I've got some issues with how you priced this.
Originally Posted by thxone
I don’t mean to pry but what was the total engine cost?
Total cost with Rebello supplying everything was around 8K (this also included new mikuni carbs/linkage/filters). throw another 2K in for flywheel and clutch and misc so about 10K total and Rebello has a lifetime warranty on engine for that cost for us.
Total cost with Rebello supplying everything was around 8K (this also included new mikuni carbs/linkage/filters). throw another 2K in for flywheel and clutch and misc so about 10K total and Rebello has a lifetime warranty on engine for that cost for us.
The Rebello stroker dyno sheet says 312 crank hp & 294lb/ft torque for a mere.... $10K <shiver ... shiver>
08-30-2006, 08:12 PM
#33
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 2,826
Something I forgot to mention is that one of the jobs I use to have was in a machine shop and a gentleman there over 6 or 8 months gave me a crash coarse in porting and polish, gasket matching and shaping combustion chambers...the man is still a family friend and has offerd me his assistance when I need it at his home... so some of those prices may not even be a factor if I can get the work done for free.But yes the pricing is all apart of research fellas, the only way for me to get any smarter on this is with Q&A's and research...but yes when I saw the price of the Rebello stroker I almost shat myself!
08-30-2006, 08:15 PM
#34
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Location: Concord, NC
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Oh yeah and those numbers even at the wheels would still be above my minimum numbers I wanted to keep...plus I want to see what I can do with the parts I have and see what money can be saved from that. But yes $10,000...ouch!
08-30-2006, 08:25 PM
#35
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
hands down, the L28ET is the most cost effective power upgrade you can make to a naturally aspirated Z. There's no debating that. It might not be capable of the same brute numbers as the SBC, but it doesn't cost as much and there is no fabrication involved.
Of course if it's all new or rebuilt parts you're going for then of course that changes things. But picking up an L28ET that doesnt need any work done to it is not exactly difficult. I made a 20hr trek to get mine and had to put very little money into it.
Cases where a 3.1 is logical:
1. you are in a racing class that doesnt allow forced induction (but does allow displacement increases)
2. the word 'budget' is not in your vocabulary (or bank account)
3. an utter distaste for forced induction (for whatever reason)
If you want to spend money to get the best bang for the buck then find yourself a low mileage V8 motor to drop in. If you just want more power and want it cheap then the turbo reigns supreme. You gotta remember that the stroker is going to have it's limits. The turbo motor and the V8 are limited only by your budget and the size of your ********* (is that politcally correct these days? Cause we have female member now
) With MS, upgraded fuel injectors, and an intercooler making power with the turbo motor is pretty much free with the exception of taking the time to tune the MS to compensate for more boost.
Of course if it's all new or rebuilt parts you're going for then of course that changes things. But picking up an L28ET that doesnt need any work done to it is not exactly difficult. I made a 20hr trek to get mine and had to put very little money into it.
Cases where a 3.1 is logical:
1. you are in a racing class that doesnt allow forced induction (but does allow displacement increases)
2. the word 'budget' is not in your vocabulary (or bank account)
3. an utter distaste for forced induction (for whatever reason)
If you want to spend money to get the best bang for the buck then find yourself a low mileage V8 motor to drop in. If you just want more power and want it cheap then the turbo reigns supreme. You gotta remember that the stroker is going to have it's limits. The turbo motor and the V8 are limited only by your budget and the size of your ********* (is that politcally correct these days? Cause we have female member now
) With MS, upgraded fuel injectors, and an intercooler making power with the turbo motor is pretty much free with the exception of taking the time to tune the MS to compensate for more boost.
08-30-2006, 09:04 PM
#36
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Concord, NC
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Ohhh J, I see your point....no no, I really do. lol Like I said a while back, I can still get a 1983 L28ET with less than 53,000 miles on it for what was it like $400 but it has no turbo on it. However, you are pushing the turbo on me pretty hard, if you have an extra laying around I won't turn my nose up to it if you want to give it to me
08-30-2006, 09:17 PM
#37
Originally Posted by thxone
Ohhh J, I see your point....no no, I really do. lol Like I said a while back, I can still get a 1983 L28ET with less than 53,000 miles on it for what was it like $400 but it has no turbo on it. However, you are pushing the turbo on me pretty hard, if you have an extra laying around I won't turn my nose up to it if you want to give it to me
08-30-2006, 10:20 PM
#39
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
hate to tell you guys, but id pay for the stroker motor, seems silly, but i really like it. ive always liked the fact that i could have that much power without a turbo. clean engine bay with no piping or anything, just all motor. add some nos and we are up to 350hp on demand right now, no lag, no spool, just power. it may cost, but dang it would be fun. now that i know 300 can be done, im going for 240 rwhp. dont think i wont get it.
08-31-2006, 03:42 AM
#40
More Than Meets The Eye
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mesa, Az
Posts: 5,120
Originally Posted by SHADY280
hate to tell you guys, but id pay for the stroker motor, seems silly, but i really like it. ive always liked the fact that i could have that much power without a turbo. clean engine bay with no piping or anything, just all motor. add some nos and we are up to 350hp on demand right now, no lag, no spool, just power. it may cost, but dang it would be fun. now that i know 300 can be done, im going for 240 rwhp. dont think i wont get it.
08-31-2006, 07:29 AM
#41
Shady & Wildman... both good points. I totally agree that raw na power is sweet ***, especially a torque monster stroker that at the tap of the gas will throw ya back.
My only concern is the HUGE price tag for such a small hp gain. For $10K in mods, I'd be building a 500hp engine.
Thxone... if you do decide to go stroker, by hell... DO NOT BUY MSA's STROKER KIT... you'll be waiting 1 year+ for it, and don't need to pay $1.8K when you can get all the parts yourself for $500. Just need LD28 crank, L24 rods, & KA24DE pistons.
So... $500 for your own bigbore kit...
$200 for block boring & work
$500 in headwork
$500 for a mild or hot cam
$500 for megasquirt
$250 for ss header
$250 for custom exhaust
what else?
My only concern is the HUGE price tag for such a small hp gain. For $10K in mods, I'd be building a 500hp engine.
Thxone... if you do decide to go stroker, by hell... DO NOT BUY MSA's STROKER KIT... you'll be waiting 1 year+ for it, and don't need to pay $1.8K when you can get all the parts yourself for $500. Just need LD28 crank, L24 rods, & KA24DE pistons.
So... $500 for your own bigbore kit...
$200 for block boring & work
$500 in headwork
$500 for a mild or hot cam
$500 for megasquirt
$250 for ss header
$250 for custom exhaust
what else?
08-31-2006, 08:40 AM
#42
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 301
Well youd have to balance the whole assembly and if it were my engine I would probibly have some things shot peened such as rods but im not sure of the prices?
Another point is what are you most comfortable around, if you dont have the slightest idea how a turbo engine should act and you can reach the same numbers you want with a n/a if price isnt a factor why wouldn't you go n/a? Plus what would you recive more respect with, a 250hp turbo done over and over, or a 250hp n/a.
Another point is what are you most comfortable around, if you dont have the slightest idea how a turbo engine should act and you can reach the same numbers you want with a n/a if price isnt a factor why wouldn't you go n/a? Plus what would you recive more respect with, a 250hp turbo done over and over, or a 250hp n/a.
Last edited by CraigS; 08-31-2006 at 08:48 AM.
08-31-2006, 10:02 AM
#46
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,939
Piping can be pretty if you take your time to polish/powder coat it.
I don't know to tell you at this point, you have done your research and you are getting great info from all sides. In the end you'll have to lay it out all see what you want to spend and then go with what "You" want.
I know everyone has their own idea but remember it's your car and what you want. No matter what you put in there someone is going to disagree but in the end it's the smile on your face that matters.
The 3.1L/Turbo/V8 is all great choices and will yield a lot of fun.
I don't know to tell you at this point, you have done your research and you are getting great info from all sides. In the end you'll have to lay it out all see what you want to spend and then go with what "You" want.
I know everyone has their own idea but remember it's your car and what you want. No matter what you put in there someone is going to disagree but in the end it's the smile on your face that matters.
The 3.1L/Turbo/V8 is all great choices and will yield a lot of fun.
Originally Posted by SHADY280
hate to tell you guys, but id pay for the stroker motor, seems silly, but i really like it. ive always liked the fact that i could have that much power without a turbo. clean engine bay with no piping or anything, just all motor. add some nos and we are up to 350hp on demand right now, no lag, no spool, just power. it may cost, but dang it would be fun. now that i know 300 can be done, im going for 240 rwhp. dont think i wont get it.
08-31-2006, 10:24 AM
#48
Originally Posted by CraigS
Well now that you say it, just to please all sides is to build a V8 turbo 383!
The sucker ran 9.70 in the 1/4mi. .... $7500
08-31-2006, 02:02 PM
#50
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
The difference between Shady and wildmans points and what Thxone was asking is two different things. Thxone was after the most cost effective power gains. If someone wants to spend the money to do the stroker and understands what they're getting into then by all means I've got nothing negative to say about it. But if you want the best bang for the buck then you cant really beat forced induction. No matter how much power you can make with a naturally aspriated motor, you can always make more with forced induction.
I say stroke it AND slap a turbo on it. I mean if you're going to go through all that trouble of stroking it then why not go the whole nine yards and eat the cake too. Especially if you're starting with an L28ET already anyways.
I say stroke it AND slap a turbo on it. I mean if you're going to go through all that trouble of stroking it then why not go the whole nine yards and eat the cake too. Especially if you're starting with an L28ET already anyways.
