thxone

I was goofing off, pricing 3.1L stroker stuff and comparing it to the price of V8 swaps and turbo swaps ( all new stuff not used junk yard parts) weighing the pros and cons of each such as ease of instals, fabrication and final appearence, available parts, parts I have already and a few other things. When it comes down to it, I have an F54 block and a P79 head in great shape with less than 100,000 miles on them. It took me a while to price everything what with parts and machine work for all the different engine/tranny choices I had...the 3.1L stroker w/stage 2 cam and MS and T5 tranny was the cheapest. Yes..it WAS the cheapest when compared to the other choices with NEW parts. Under $5,000 total, the next cheapest was the Turbo L28ET w/stage 2 cam, T5 tranny and with MS followed closely by the V8 swap with T5. Again, all new parts.

240Z Video 3.1L Large file at 17+megs

Anyway I came across this 240Z with a 3.1L in it and BAM! it is kicks ***. Sounds good and pulls hard. Some of you may have seen this I am sure but it is worth watching...imagine how much better mine could be what with the F54 and P79...oh and fuel injected...he as carbs...and alot of you convinced me that was not the way to go....thanks, you were right, I will keep the FI.

Attachment 5080

CraigS

Well the prices are generally close for new parts, but the power potential in a turbo or V8 compaired to the 3.1 are huge, really really huge.

Then again its about what you want and what you want out of it, and, well, you seem REALLY hell bent on getting a 3.1.

So good luck on your journeys with the 3.1!

thxone

I am still contimplating the choices and what I would like to get out of whatever build I go with. The good thing is my buddy in Ga is also thinking about the 3.1L build and when it comes to building engines he knows what he is doing. To have two minds working together in the same place at the same time may have its advantages though and the fact that we are more than capable of doing 80% or more of the build and assembly we can save quite a bit of money too. We will have to wait and see.

jfairladyz

when you factored the prices did you factor in the machining costs for the 3.1? I'd be interested to see how a 3.1 came out cheaper then an L28ET swap??? We're talking aftermarket pistons, a different (new as you claim) LD28 crankshaft, new rods, etc...

Not trying to flame but I just dont see how an L28ET swap comes out more expensive. My total cost, including the purchase of the motor was probably around $300-$400. Engine was inspected internally and no machine work was needed nor any new parts as everything was as good as new. That pricing wont get you any single internal part needed for the 3.1 buildup. You said all new an a new LD28 crank is gonna run you up over a grand all by itself. I could've completed my swap and added Megasquirt for the cost of the diesel crank alone.

But that car is sweet

thxone

I should have clarified that by new I mean bought from a parts store or from a performance shop, rebuilt and not something I would have to pull myself.

Block: 1982 L28E F54
Head: 1982 P79 both owned already

Big Bore Kit: MSA part # 10-1202 price $1,799.00
Performance Cam Kit: MSA part # 10-2000 price $549.95 Stage 2 Cam
Clean and Magnaflux block: $150
Clean and Magnaflux head: $80
Bore and Hone Block: $85
3 Angle Valve Job: $120
Header: $50
Full Exhaust: $225
MS estimated high at $500
T5 Rebuilt $1000
Clutch $300 +- $20
Call it $4,860

The L28ET: Block, rebuilt and warrantied $1,200
Head P90A Rebuilt, valve job, peformance cam, ported and pollished warrantied $1,000
Header equal length and coated $700
Turbo T3/T4 $650
IC Stillen $1,139
MS Estimated $500
Tranny, clutch $1,300
Call it $6,500

V8: GM 350 H.O. $2,429.95
Induction Eldelbrock Pro Flo EFI $2,109.95
Tranny GM B&M 700R4 $1,560.50
Custom drive shaft $280
Mounts $299.95
R200...who knows!!
And lots of other small but crucial parts.
Total was a bit over $7,000

I did this so I could actually SEE the prices and sort it out a little better as to the parts needed or wanted but new or warrantied parts were a must as everyone says if you are going to do it do it right. I am still shopping for better prices or better quality parts but this is going to be close to what is needed price wise if this route is takin by me. I am sure I will update my list(s) as I come across better parts or deals or find new nessesary parts but at least I have an idea now as to the cost of the builds. But if I was to go through the hassle of swapping engines I would want better performance above what stock would be for each type hence my choices above. Can you dig it...I knew thatcha could!!

FubarI33t

that 3.1L was pretty Sweet. and worth the download from dail up. (1hr) She is pullin hard. Sounds Sweet.

silvrhand

First off way to do your research and organize things, now the pro/cons of these cost need to be eval'd as well.

3.1L - good power no hassle but probably maxxed on what you can do with that ending.

L28 Turbo - more power, more hassle but has a lot more headroom/power possibility

V8 Swap - more power, less hassle, but fab costs. Has more power headroom but run into problems with frame issues.

FYI: the price on this intercoolers seems WAY high, I don't think you need a huge FMIC for the boost you are running on stock T3/T4?

thxone

Thank you Mr. Silver. I read a while back that a larger IC is better because of more surface area to cool and that the pressure drop would minimal and lag would not be as bad as a smaller cooler...it has been a while and I could be mistaken but I think that's what I read. The 3.1L hmmm, I think as far as power goes it is what I am looking for, I do still have to drive the car daily but I think being able to take most 1989-1995 5.0's would be just fine provided they were near stock or slightly modified. I know how they pull with 225 hp and near 300 lb-ft tq and if the 3.1 would pull a little better thats all I want. The torque is what I am after mostly. Now if nobody can visually see anything out of the ordinary then it would be a bit of a sleeper too. I am sure with a 3.1L these numbers can easily be reached and with a lighter car such as my 280zx I should be able to win if the need calls for it.

Here is the link for the IC http://www.stillen.com/product_detail.aspx?sku=401251 It sure is purty.

NismoPick

I think what Silvr was saying is: DON'T BUY THAT IC... IT'S WAY OVERPRICED.

You can get an Isuzu NPR intercooler that is twice that surface area for $50 from a junk yard, or $150-$200 from ebay.

Not to flame, but those that are buying the $1000+ intercoolers are either retarded or too proud to have non-pro parts on their car.

Search ebay... there are hundreds of good IC's for cheap.

apollo

That 240 is in my club, East Bay Z's. It was built by Robello here in in the bay area. Its pretty damn fast. Dont like the colour and front grill they got goin on but its a sweet Z none the less.

SHADY280

that really rivals my n/a. i like it, thats the way n/a's should be built. i love n/a's its easy to beat the 5.0 guys, unless they are getting hevy mods, then its outta your class. i can even beat the 2005 stangs

thxone

Hey Apollo, any chance you can put me in contact with that guy in the 240? I would like to ask him a few questions.

apollo

I'll try but hes hard to get a hold of. Try hybrid Z, hes on there really often. His SN is like brian510 or something along those lines

lww

And you'll be interested to know, they are swapping to Fuel Injection and going with a turbo.

Also, it's a 3.2L not a 3.1L and it was built by an L series race car builder. Dave Rebello has around 30 years experience building L6 race motors.

When I asked Brian, if he had a chance to do it again, what would he do and he said, without hesitation, he would have done a straight FI turbo.

The work, $$$ and effort necessary to make 250hp on his professionally built 3.2L motor could easily have been reached for much less money on a standard displacement turbo motor with much better driveability and WAY better gas mileage.

Also, MSA has had the "Big Bore Kit" on 'backorder' for nearly a year now if I recall. Primarily because their supplier quit making it due to lack of demand. Unless that's changed, It's most likely still unavailable.

That pretty much leaves your only option as a custom crank which can be VERY expensive.

Everyone who's built a 3.1 stroker motor that I know of has regretted it in the end. I'm not saying you will, I'm just saying the chances are high.

I feel guilty about trying to talk you out of this, but, my experience tells me your calculations are a bit off.

In order of cost, both financial and emotional, I would put the turbo swap first, the SBC/SBF swap second and the stroker build last.

The turbo swap is a direct swap, add an IC and you can dial the boost up to 12+ psi on stock everything. With a JTR kit, the SBC is practically a bolt-on. The only build that mandates any significant amount of machine work to achieve the power goals you're looking for is the stroker.

thxone

Don't feel guilty lww, I still need info and suggestions. This is by no means set in stone. All the prices I got were either from direct phone calls to machine shops, performance shops or price listings from various sites. I however should stick with what I said in my audio thread about used doesn't mean worthless...sorry about that. On the 3.1L thing...I am not looking to make it a race engine if I go that route but better than stock and better than a stock L28ET. I do have minimum hp and tq numbers I want to stay above though, those being 225 hp and 275 lb-tq. Anything below that is not gonna do.

Whatever ends up being the "easiest or cheapest" way to do those numbers or better is what I will do. I think idealy 250hp and 325 lb-tq would satisfy my power wants but the power of the V8 at 330hp and 380 lb-tq is to me excessive, would be my upper limit. Ok how about this...whatever setup gets the numbers with the least effort from the engine? UGGGG Crap...see lww, now you are confusing me, the easy way out is V8...but...UGGGGG!!! The stoker sounds evil, the turbo when it spools is thrilling and the torque from the V8 is titilating. Maybe I will just get a mountain bike...I need to lose a few pounds anyway.

WildmaN

D#mn thxone, that is one sweet #ss 240z! I really do want to put a 3.1 stroker in my '81, after I get him fixed. Because I am cloning him like Smokescreen the Autobot. And since he will be a race-car looking Z. He is staying naturally aspirated. And my '82 is getting the turbo swap with 10-15 psi of boost. That is all I am looking for, close to 200hp, or a little more than that. But that is all down the road quite a ways yet. I have other things to attend to. Mainly getting that other Z, hopefully soon.

And if you want to 3.1 it, go for it bro'. It is all in what you want out of your car. No matter the cost and such. I know the 3.1 will be pricey, but I would rather spend more money on keeping an L6, than by putting a v-8, which I am so against with my Z. And that is my opinion, different strokes, for different folks. Good luck to you either way man, whatever you decide

FubarI33t

I def want to keep My L6. one thing that made me fall in love with the car. I want 3.1L but crank and headgasket seems to be my problem.

NismoPick

I really REALLY doubt you'll be able to get 325lb/ft of torque from an NA stroker.... 250hp will be pretty hard to achieve too.

You say you want CHEAP POWER..... that's what the ricers want... they drive lil 4cyl engines & slap on AutoZone parts & skull floormats. CHEAP POWER is "cold air intakes" and "cat back exhausts"

If "cheap 250hp & 325lb/ft torque" is what you want, you'll need an L28ET or a SBC.

FubarI33t

Cheap power is no fun at all. Cheap bolt on power is easy, and boreing. Basicly your jsuit changin the sound of a car and maby a lil better Throttle responce. Real Power is achived by hard work and know how.

veyenyl

I'm selling my 89mm Arias forged pistons if anyones interested. Made for a 3.1 turbo build. Most likely I'll put it on ebay this week with no reserve unless someone makes me an offer I can't refuse.

FubarI33t

I would but i am still a lil way's away from the bottom end right this secound. And still debateing on a bore.

apollo

There is always a titan V8 . . . .

WildmaN

Yeah that is an exception to the rule. If I was going to put a v-8 in my Z. It would stay in the Nissan family. It would be pretty sick to have that monster in my small car. Anyway yeah I am sure it would be quite expensive to get a Titan V-8. All aside, I can't stand the Titans, or Tundras. They look bulky and big like American trucks. There is no originality anymore.

veyenyl

VK56 swap in progress

http://www.flzclub.com/vk56de/

thxone

Sloooooow down there!! By cheap I mean less in cost not quality, it makes good sense to shop around for better prices. There are imports out there (4cyl's) that have alot of time, money, ingenuity, and effort into them to achive their goals. I give those people respect because the have the passion enough to go for their goals. "Ricers" or what my circle of friends call "Chads" are a different type of person all together and I am not about just slapping on a big tube with a cone shaped air filter and a big chrome tip with a 1" hole in it.

I will help clear up one thing though. Cold air intakes, Headers, Cat back exhaust, large MAF's, and mufflers do not ADD power to your engine. The only thing they are doing, through their size, is letting more air enter and exit the engine quicker allowing the engine to work easier and possibly freeing up what power was already there. The only way to get more POWER is by modifying the engine itself. I.E. Cam(s) Adding a turbo or upgrading a turbo, Supercharger, Nos, Boring and or stroking. When these things are done to the engine then the "bolt on's" should be used as the modified engine now requires more air to enter and exit the engine. You can debate these FACT's if you like but the only way to prove added power is with a dyno. The chances of getting a dyno readout from an unmodified engine for a bolt on part is slim to none. I have seen an add for a cold air intake that said it will give a 10-16hp at the wheels increase by bolting it on...I laughed and I laughed.

I have contacted Brian about his sons 1973 240Z 3.2L with the Rebello built engine to get some more input on the subject though and I hope to hear from him directly. But on the subject of the power I am looking for, if it turns out that the ONLY way I can do that is with a turbo or SBC then I will move in that direction, however I do belive it can be done with the 3.1L with proper planing and research.

No rudeness was intended by any of these statements.