Taking your car to a dealer or shop? Read first!
11-21-2008, 02:31 PM
#1
Hoov for Pres!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tempe AZ
Posts: 959
Taking your car to a dealer or shop? Read first!
Okay... People have been taking their cars to dealerships, and other automotive shops since vehicles have been mass produced.
However, cars have become more complicated, and the drivers now have 10,000 other things in life to worry about than to know how everything on a car works.
This means that the mechanic you take your car to is holding all the cards. If the mechanic or shop wants, they can almost get away with murder.
This is because people too often take their word, or believe the stories that are told when they shouldn't.
First off. Like anything else that you may not fully understand.
ASK QUESTIONS!!!
Ask them how the system on the car works, and why they think it broke. There is always a root cause to a failure. Any good mechanic should be able to determine the original problem.
So your rotors are bad. Why?
Your battery has been replaced more than once recently. Why?
If the root cause is not fixed, the problem is not fixed.
The parts taken off of your car are yours. Not the shops. They will get rid of them as soon as possible, or sell them, or salvage them. Even return as cores. If that's the case, they will say so, and you still have a right to inspect it before they send it off. Even if you want to throw the part away, ask them to see it when they remove it. Ask to see the proof of the broken part.
Don't trust your mechanic further than you can throw them.
Even if they are trustworthy, they make mistakes too. They are just people.
Brakes are an area that shops love to inflate. That is why you see 10,000 brake and lube shops, and 2 full service shops in your town. Brakes are where the money is.
New OEM brakes can last for 100,000 miles with little to no service. They claim that you have bad brakes, ask to see them. They claim that your bad brakes cause your rotors to fail, ask to see the damage. It's easy to see grooves in a rotor. And if it's warped, it's easy to feel. It will vibrate at all brake loads.
A tune up is not near as complicated as it used to be. There used to be carburetor adjustments, timing system adjustments, points to file and replace etc. Most new cars will go 30,000 miles on a set of plugs. More on the wires. Good synthetic oil has better cleaning agents used, and can last three times longer than conventional oil used back in the day. Especially thanks to the lack of lead used in gasoline, and less blow-by and better sealed engines.
Do not just tell the shop what you think they should do. Tell them the problem, and ask them what they will do to find it.
Do not give a shop the power to fix multiple problems without permission.
Scanners will tell them multiple problems at once. They do not need to replace one sensor before they can tell if another is broken, then replace that. I cheap MAP sensor now becomes an expensive MAP, IAC, O2, TPS etc.
You may not want to spend a thousand dollars to fix the car in the first place.
Mechanics are not a particularly dishonest group. Sure, there are bad ones out there, but if we put temptation in their way by arriving in a state of total ignorance, the blame lies at least partly with you. Find a reputable shop.
Many people think that you have to go to a dealership to have warranty work completed. This is often not true. With a few exceptions, warranty work can be performed by any licensed professional, as long as the requirements laid out for the specific job are met.
Dealerships are often trained to handle your type of car better than another. But, just because it's a Nissan dealer, does not mean that the technicians in there have ever even touched the car you drive. Different vehicles have different engineering flaws.
If you have a problem that you can describe well, take the time, and do your research. Google is a great tool. You can find forums dealing with your specific car, or at least the brand and similar models. Try out http://www.howstuffworks.com/
A vehicle is an investment. Invest your money wisely, and don't rely on another failure prone human to make the decisions for you.
However, cars have become more complicated, and the drivers now have 10,000 other things in life to worry about than to know how everything on a car works.
This means that the mechanic you take your car to is holding all the cards. If the mechanic or shop wants, they can almost get away with murder.
This is because people too often take their word, or believe the stories that are told when they shouldn't.
First off. Like anything else that you may not fully understand.
ASK QUESTIONS!!!
Ask them how the system on the car works, and why they think it broke. There is always a root cause to a failure. Any good mechanic should be able to determine the original problem.
So your rotors are bad. Why?
Your battery has been replaced more than once recently. Why?
If the root cause is not fixed, the problem is not fixed.
The parts taken off of your car are yours. Not the shops. They will get rid of them as soon as possible, or sell them, or salvage them. Even return as cores. If that's the case, they will say so, and you still have a right to inspect it before they send it off. Even if you want to throw the part away, ask them to see it when they remove it. Ask to see the proof of the broken part.
Don't trust your mechanic further than you can throw them.
Even if they are trustworthy, they make mistakes too. They are just people.
Brakes are an area that shops love to inflate. That is why you see 10,000 brake and lube shops, and 2 full service shops in your town. Brakes are where the money is.
New OEM brakes can last for 100,000 miles with little to no service. They claim that you have bad brakes, ask to see them. They claim that your bad brakes cause your rotors to fail, ask to see the damage. It's easy to see grooves in a rotor. And if it's warped, it's easy to feel. It will vibrate at all brake loads.
A tune up is not near as complicated as it used to be. There used to be carburetor adjustments, timing system adjustments, points to file and replace etc. Most new cars will go 30,000 miles on a set of plugs. More on the wires. Good synthetic oil has better cleaning agents used, and can last three times longer than conventional oil used back in the day. Especially thanks to the lack of lead used in gasoline, and less blow-by and better sealed engines.
Do not just tell the shop what you think they should do. Tell them the problem, and ask them what they will do to find it.
Do not give a shop the power to fix multiple problems without permission.
Scanners will tell them multiple problems at once. They do not need to replace one sensor before they can tell if another is broken, then replace that. I cheap MAP sensor now becomes an expensive MAP, IAC, O2, TPS etc.
You may not want to spend a thousand dollars to fix the car in the first place.
Mechanics are not a particularly dishonest group. Sure, there are bad ones out there, but if we put temptation in their way by arriving in a state of total ignorance, the blame lies at least partly with you. Find a reputable shop.
Many people think that you have to go to a dealership to have warranty work completed. This is often not true. With a few exceptions, warranty work can be performed by any licensed professional, as long as the requirements laid out for the specific job are met.
Dealerships are often trained to handle your type of car better than another. But, just because it's a Nissan dealer, does not mean that the technicians in there have ever even touched the car you drive. Different vehicles have different engineering flaws.
If you have a problem that you can describe well, take the time, and do your research. Google is a great tool. You can find forums dealing with your specific car, or at least the brand and similar models. Try out http://www.howstuffworks.com/
A vehicle is an investment. Invest your money wisely, and don't rely on another failure prone human to make the decisions for you.
11-21-2008, 04:47 PM
#2
Hoov for Pres!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tempe AZ
Posts: 959
I do from when I first started driving. But, I have been the mechanic at a few shops, and for a Caterpillar dealer on heavy equipment.
I am just tired of hearing all the people coming on forums and complaining about a bad experience that they could have avoided. Hope it helps someone.
I am just tired of hearing all the people coming on forums and complaining about a bad experience that they could have avoided. Hope it helps someone.
11-22-2008, 04:41 PM
#4
More Than Meets The Eye
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mesa, Az
Posts: 5,120
Yes...very nice writeup man. And so true in so many ways. That is pretty much why I work on my own car. Then if I screw up..I can blame myself. lol Anyway very good points..put in there. There are alot of shops..that like to take advantage. Especially with a woman.
11-22-2008, 05:01 PM
#5
Political n00b crusher
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,576
Good write-up indeed Rat. I try to do as much as I can myself....but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and have someone else do the work due to time constraints or whatever. Some good information in there for sure.
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