WildmaN

All tune up parts are pretty much new. And it was running pretty good, not too much up and down idle. Pretty steady. Anyway # 6 has had issues, since I got it running. I ran ATF through it to free it up. Probably had a stuck ring. It has helped, but still something isn't right. I am going to still point the finger at my catilytic convertor. I believe it is not quite good enough.

And I couldn't afford to run a whole tank. Then fill it up. I know that pass emissions stuff worked before. But after taking a nice long cruise, then taking it in the next day. That was with my '81 years ago.

As for the shop, I don't have one I go to. I figured I will go to the one down the street. That worked on my wife's car a while back. I will ask them, if they can gurantee I pass emissions. I am sick of spending money, messing with things, and going through and failing. I never have had so much trouble with a Z in all my owning of them. Of getting through emissions.

NismoPick

I doubt it's your cat since everything else passed.

You ran ATF through what? The oil? Hopefully you've done an oil change since then?

So you've been taking the car to different shops every time? Why not stick to one shop? At least the mechanics will get to know you. Also, don't you have a grace period to bring it back for a free retest?

Also, read this: http://www.aa1car.com/library/2000/ic60032.htm

WildmaN

Just a quart of ATF. It is pretty much out of the car. And yes I put it in the oil. It doesn't stay in long. My oil is clean, and goldish color.

And no, I haven't taken my cars, to a shop in years. I just thought about taking my Z to a shop, that fixed my wife's car earlier this year. And they did a good job. And were courteous.

What grace period? This Z hasn't been registered since 1995. According to the background on it. It would be nice to get a license plate for it. I am sick of temporary tags! And I have been through 4 freaking times through the smog *****. And I am plain sick of it! I am going to get it diagnosed by a shop. Spend the money now, and pass after. Which the money was going towards another engine, I was going to purchase for my other Z. But since this state sucks. And some jerkoff, says. "Oh you have to have this amount of stuff coming out your car. And if you are over the limit we say is truth. And pollutes the environment." "You cannot register your vehicle" I say BS. Do they think about how damaging the hybrids are to the environment? I could get into a major discussion about that. Where do the batteries go, when they are of no use? The ground. What gives us our oxygen? The plants, and they are in the ground. Need I say more?


I had a hard time with my Celica before. And I ended up going 8 times, before I gave in. And took it to a shop. It ended up costing me over $300 dollars! Pissed me off. Because the main problem I was having was passing NOX. And I tried every trick in the book. And still couldn't get it low enough to pass. It ended up being the vacuum servo valve in the EGR. Since my brother got the car from me. And just recently rebuilt the engine. There is no more EGR system in it. He has it deleted. And car runs 100 times better. Minus having a rebuilt engine.

All aside...I am venting again. I'm off to bed. Tell you the results tomorrow hopefully.

NismoPick

Unless your motor burns oil like crazy (which would be the reason it's failing), the ATF is still in your oil. ATF has cleaning agents. You aren't supposed to keep it in the oil. It's only used to flush the old oil, then you immediately do an oil change.

Ah, do you have to take the car to the state for emissions checks? Sorry, I thought you were taking it to a local shop to have them do the emissions check (most shops in Utah are state certified for emissions checks).

After your car has failed emissions, don't they give you a ~15day grace period to fix it & come back for another try? I'm asking this because it sounds like you've paid for every attempt...

Side note... I'm not sure if you've thought this out completely.

Old cars go to junk yards / wreckers where they are stripped of most hazardous materials. That being said, I think the 7 billion people on the earth right now, throwing away household hazardous materials, and paper, plastic, and glass that could be recycled, is going to affect the ground much more than a few hybrid batteries.

WildmaN

Well I know that ATF goes out of the system, in a short time. And that would cause my hydrocarbons to be high. Which I know I am not burning oil. Anyway my dad has been a mechanic for many years. And told me, it would eventually exit out the system. I know it has helped free up my # 6 cylinder, but I still have a problem with it working at full potential.

Yes, I have been taking it to the smog **** stations 4 times now. I have an appointment on Monday to have it looked at. And the owner of the shop actually told me multiple things, that could cause it to fail CO. And the cat was mentioned. I still think I have a worn out cat. It is an original '82 one. I will find out on Monday morning.

As for a grace period. You pay $27.75 every other test. Like you pay for the first test, then the retest is free. And if you fail again, it just repeats. So far I have forked out almost $60 in taking it. I am not wasting anymore money, on guessing. Also not to mention the gas I have burned going out to the smog **** station.

As for your last paragraph. I wasn't talking about people throwing out their trash. I was talking about batteries, that are a waste. Did you know when those hybrid batteries go out. That it will cost you 15k to replace them? I have been researching, and reading up on those POS hybrid cars. And as I believe, we cannot destroy the earth. It will be destroyed with fire in the end by God Almighty. Why fire? Well as God promised, He would not destroy the earth again by water. But He didn't say, He wouldn't use fire. I'm not saying we should just be careless and destroy it. But....we shouldn't try to save the earth, like the tree huggers, and green environment people are trying to do. If they would read the Bible, they would have their eyes opened more. Okay, I am off my soap box now.

evandubya

my dad's friend put some atf in his engine because it had a valve rattle, he left it in there and the engine blew up. this isn't an attack on your dad, every person I've asked about atf in oil pan, says you idle the engine for 10 - 20 min dump it out put in new. Think about atf doesn't go away in an automatic transmission, so why would it leave your oil pan.

Hope you figure out whats going on soon so you pass. That's has to be a pain in the neck.

NismoPick

Exactly. ATF doesn't magically "go out of the system". Just sayin...

BlueKitsune

I was told never put more then a "capfull" of atf in your engine. as any more would also soften up all rubber seals on the engine.

I would have just filled the cylinders with seafoam, or put marvel mystery oil in the engine oil. Time for a flush and refill then try again?

SHADY280

yeah original 82 cat prolly isnt gonna do the full deal that it should. atf in an engine is good for a cleaning and to clear up gunk, but you do need to change it out once its flushed the gunk and got it all stuck in the oil filter. and the hybrid batteries, yup you gotta change them ever 7-15 years depending on model, for super high cash, you are supposed to recycle them at the dealership where they get rebuilt and sold again. we also have local places that pay 5 bux for dead car batteries to properly dispose of them/recycle them into new batteries.

WildmaN

Okay the shop just finished looking at my Z. And said, the original cat is not doing anything. Even after putting a new one on. They still said, it's not 100%, that it will pass even after that. I told them, I bought a direct-fit Magnaflow high-flow cat the other day. Because all along, I was thinking the cat was shot.

He told me, to mount it as close to the engine as I could. Considering, where the cat is, is from factory. Why would moving it closer help make it function like it is supposed too? I thought about mounting it myself. Hence the reason, I got the direct-fit one. So there is no welding involved.

So do you think I would be allright. If I mounted it in the same spot, as the old one? Or should I do what he suggests, and have it mounted closer to the engine? I am open to your thoughts, and suggestions.

Also, I wanted to mention. That I have a Monza header on the car also. Not the stock exhaust manifold. And there is a glass pack muffler at the end.

BlueKitsune

I would mount it in the stock location. They put it there for a reason so why not put it back where it was?

BTW Did you properly adjust your valves to the hot specs? I know its a new head and all but that could give you issues as well. Also might want to make sure your running the normal heat range of the sparkplugs for your Z as well.

WildmaN

Okay, yeah I know I ran a Magnaflow universal one before. And it passed quite well. The cat is behind the header pipe, honestly. I don't see any other place it could mount, without major modifications, and welding.

And yes I adjusted them after I got the car running. I took it to my dad's house. And they helped me adjust the valves while the engine was hot. And I am running the spark plugs, that I have used, and are recommended for the engine. They are standard NGK, nothing special. With the NGK 8mm spark plug wires.

I don't really want to touch anything else, until I pass smog. Only thing I will do, is put on my new cat. That I am going to pick up here soon. Then try again tomorrow. And hopefully I will pass. It would be nice to get a plate for this car. lol It hasn't been registered since '95. Thanks for replying.

WildmaN

Okay just got the new cat on. It smells like it is pretty lean. I am also wondering. It mentioned in my paper. They adjusted my fuel pressure. How do you think they did that? It is now running at 30 psi or so. When it used to run 35-37 psi.

Also, there really isn't any other place to mount the cat closer to the engine. It would be right against the transmission. So where it mounts from factory. Is really the only place it will work.

So I will go to the smog ***** tomorrow. And hopefully I will pass. I'll keep you updated. Thanks for all the help, and suggestions.

NismoPick

Lean or CLEAN? I don't know how "lean" smells... Smells like burning?

As for adjusting the fuel pressure, I'd also like to know how they did that. The stock regulator is not adjustable, unless they crushed the diaphragm.

Why would it need to be closer to the engine?

Fingers crossed, y0!

WildmaN

Thanks bro', appreciate it.

SHADY280

i agree with the pick on that bit. good luck wildman

lww

I know you're going in today for the retest. Make sure you run it pretty hard for at least 30 minutes to make sure you get everything up to temperature so your cat is working at full efficiency.

I assume you recently changed the oil and filter as well? Old oil can affect your NOx output.

WildmaN

It seems to be a redundant situation. I failed again. What I learned was, with a new cat, you need to run it at least 100 miles, to break it in. Also I still am getting too much fuel. That is what they said at the office. Here are the readings.

Today

Hydrocarbons (HC) In Grams/Mile...2.75 limit 3.00 Pass

Carbon Monoxide (CO) In Grams/Mile 83.58 limit 25.00 Fail

Oxides Of Nitrogen (NOX) In Grams/Mile 0.53 limit 3.50 Pass

Previous Readings.

Hydrocarbons 2.58...Carbon Monoxide...43.15 NOX...1.89

So once I do my break in. I will take it back to the shop, that looked at it. And tell them about it running too rich still.

One thing I do know is. I am real close to saying screw it. And get classic insurance, and a plate. And never worry about this crap again. I am so sick of it.

NismoPick

I don't wanna say "I told ya so" or "I knew it wouldn't pass", but it seems like you've just been shooting in the dark for random fixes, and even after we offer our advice, it seems to go without consideration.

It REALLY should not be hard to pass your car... it's pure stock! You didn't need to replace the cat in the first place since all the other emission limits were already in range (I mentioned that earlier). Did you ever read that FAILED EMISSIONS link I posted?

Yesterday you said some shop lowered your fuel pressure (I'm sure they didn't do anything to your fuel pressure) and that you thought it smelled like it was running lean. Now today you say it's running rich...

It's been mentioned MANY times in this thread to CHANGE YOUR OIL, SPARK PLUGS, AND RETARD TIMING... you insisted that the ATF "is magically gone" out of the oil... News flash... that doesn't happen.

I've had cars "uber fail" emissions, and with a simple oil change, new plugs, and retarded timing, will pass with flying colors. The only car I was NEVER able to pass was my Porsche 924T which was 1000 times over the HC limit because the previous owner put in the wrong fuel distributor and the cheapest stock replacement I could find was $600.

Anyway, with all the kindness and Christmas cheer in my heart, I urge you to follow our instructions, and hopefully once that new cat is broken in (it really only takes 1 or 2 heat cycles), your car will pass...

BlueKitsune

Use some motor flush (Or do a seafoam intake cleaning) and change the oil, make sure your plugs are totally spotless, wires ohm correctly, no carbon build up on the cap and rotor, and make sure your coil is getting a full 12V and is working properly. And make sure all the wires are going to the right plugs. Add some Lucas fuel system cleaner to the fuel. Then make sure your air filter is entirely clean and that your O2 is working properly(Or Exhaust air valve if you have one)

If they dyno test it make sure your trans and diff is filled with good clean oil and your tires are aired up to the proper PSI

If that doesn't make you pass then Id try a different shop to test it at. *shrugs*

WildmaN

Well because I know that cylinder #6 is still not working 100%. It could possibly be why, it is running rich. So the guy at the shop suggested I unplug #6, when I go in. He also mentioned, that it should only take like 30 miles or so, to break in the cat. After all that, it should pass. And yes my cat was bad. Because after changing it, I have gained horsepower. The car hauls, and is running like a top. All this stuff is plain stupid, and lame.

If I do the things I was suggested, and was mentioned. And go again, and fail. I am calling a classic car insurance agent. And that will be it. Also in the future, I will be putting my other '82 280zx, and my '75 Firebird on classic insurance. I will get a classic plate. And wont ever have to worry about the damn smog ***** ever again. Thanks for all the tips, and suggestions.

WildmaN

Also, I know they lowered my fuel pressure. Because it went from 35-37 psi, to 30 psi. I am pretty sure my regulator is adjustable, considering it is an aftermarket one.

I do have new tune up parts on my Z (plugs, wires, cap, rotor, cleaned every sensor.) My o2 is not brand new, but pretty clean. My oil is majorly clean, and my air filter is good also. I though about getting a recharge kit for the K & N I have. And see if that will help some.

The whole reason why I put a little ATF. And it was only a quart. Was to try and free up my #6 cylinder. It did help, but not completely. So I might still have a stuck ring. And the only way to fix that, is an engine rebuild. Which I am not going to do, considering, my Z has run the best it has, since I have owned it. That, and I cannot afford, nor do I have the tools and such, to do it right now. I am still unemployed, and have to be careful. They cut my weekly pay, which freaking sucks. So with this crap with smog, and being jobless. I am a little stressed out, to say the least. I have had a very rough year. And all this crap just escalates it.

snwbrderphat540

Ok, I'm curious as to what you think the ATF is "freeing up" and what a "stuck ring" is. Because those phrases don't compute in my mind...

ANd CHANGE YOUR OIL!!!! ATF is TERRIBLE on journal bearings. It provides almost no lubricant, and yes, just a quart is more than enough to cause damage. Hell, they even created special gear lubes for manual transes that used to "call" for ATF because they caused premature failure, and everything in there is ball bearing and simple gears.

WildmaN

It is an old mechanic's trick. And my dad was just guessing what the problem could be with my cylinder. I really don't know what it really is. And yes I do plan on changing the oil and filter. Also I am going to put seafoam in the tank and oil. And get a recharge kit for my K & N filter. Probably after the weekend, I will do all this. And try and go next week to the smog *****. And if I don't pass, I am calling a classic insurance agent. And have my Z appraised. Then there will be no more smog crap to deal with. My brother has already done it, with one of his cars.

pete8717

Nebraska doesn't have to do smog which is great because i've pulled my cat and egr valve anyways. lol