Bang For Your Buck
08-13-2009, 10:47 AM
#152
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"he doesn't want to turbo the car if he doesn't have to."
I don't even know what that means.
You're going to be throwing money away by trying to make a N/A L28 get decent power. It doesn't work. Go look at other L28 builds, and look at how much money that the owner spent.
Honestly I think the only valid reason to keep the N/A L28 is if you are racing in a very specific class and have to have the stock motor.
Modified Honders are going to be making a fool of you if you try to make your N/A 280ZX fast.
I don't even know what that means.
You're going to be throwing money away by trying to make a N/A L28 get decent power. It doesn't work. Go look at other L28 builds, and look at how much money that the owner spent.
Honestly I think the only valid reason to keep the N/A L28 is if you are racing in a very specific class and have to have the stock motor.
Modified Honders are going to be making a fool of you if you try to make your N/A 280ZX fast.
What I'll probably do is tinker with my existing L28 by adding the KA TB & Cressida AFM, change my ignition/injector setups, port my intake & put a turbo header on (with the turbo port blocked off). And I'll try to save up & rebuild a L28 from the ground up. I really don't want to break down & go turbo.
08-13-2009, 10:54 AM
#153
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Location: Arkansas
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What I'll probably do is tinker with my existing L28 by adding the KA TB & Cressida AFM, change my ignition/injector setups, port my intake & put a turbo header on (with the turbo port blocked off). And I'll try to save up & rebuild a L28 from the ground up. I really don't want to break down & go turbo.
You do realize this will not let any exhaust gas escape from your motor and it won't start, right?Where the hell are you getting all of this "upgrades" information?
Nothing that you mentioned will actually help performance AT ALL. If anything the different AFM and bigger injectors will HURT your performance.
08-13-2009, 11:04 AM
#154
i felld offa mai trike
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 827
I put the AFM on my car and I didn't notice any difference 
(I'm still running the stock TB is why :P )
And when I said that the turbo header flows more than enough, I meant it flows more than enough for a 400hp turbo setup, not an NA motor lol
And I think with the ignition/injector setup he means like a megasquirt setup (I hope O_O )
(I'm still running the stock TB is why :P )And when I said that the turbo header flows more than enough, I meant it flows more than enough for a 400hp turbo setup, not an NA motor lol
And I think with the ignition/injector setup he means like a megasquirt setup (I hope O_O )
08-13-2009, 11:12 AM
#155
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sandy Oregon
Posts: 69
You do realize this will not let any exhaust gas escape from your motor and it won't start, right?Where the hell are you getting all of this "upgrades" information?
Nothing that you mentioned will actually help performance AT ALL. If anything the different AFM and bigger injectors will HURT your performance.
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08-13-2009, 11:17 AM
#156
The Evil Twin
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
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The OP doesn't know anything about cars and is grabbing onto every tidbit of advice in this thread! scary He probably doesn't even know what a turbo exhaust manifold looks like. 
Cressida AFM? Getting away from any AFM all together would be much better advice. Switch to a non-turbo Z31 ECU and MAS at least. That's a cheap upgrade. Then your airflow is metered and not merely estimated by a flap.
Cressida AFM? Getting away from any AFM all together would be much better advice. Switch to a non-turbo Z31 ECU and MAS at least. That's a cheap upgrade. Then your airflow is metered and not merely estimated by a flap.
08-13-2009, 11:23 AM
#157
i felld offa mai trike
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 827
Yea, getting away from the AFM altogether would be nice, but doesn't the Z31 swap require quite a bit of re-wiring and digging around along with setting up the CAS and stuff like that? I did my swap in less than 2 hours, and that's including running to the parts store for the couplers...
08-13-2009, 11:28 AM
#158
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The OP doesn't know anything about cars and is grabbing onto every tidbit of advice in this thread! scary He probably doesn't even know what a turbo exhaust manifold looks like.
Cressida AFM? Getting away from any AFM all together would be much better advice. Switch to a non-turbo Z31 ECU and MAS at least. That's a cheap upgrade. Then your airflow is metered and not merely estimated by a flap.
Cressida AFM? Getting away from any AFM all together would be much better advice. Switch to a non-turbo Z31 ECU and MAS at least. That's a cheap upgrade. Then your airflow is metered and not merely estimated by a flap.
KA TB = Better throttle response & wider air inlet (with proper porting, of course).
Cressida AFM = Larger for more air & easier than a Z31 ECU/MAS.
Both of these should help the engine breath a little better and get the car where I want it.
I know they're not going to boost HP, but that's not what I want from them.
A turbo exhaust manifold is slightly larger, is it not? Would allow better flow of exhaust from the engine regardless of whether I'm running boost or not and is cheaper than an aftermarket header.
A better ignition means better detonation & fuel efficiency. Would also be good for when my side engine is complete.
The megasquirt injector setup is tuneable and would be a good addition to the built engine I'll be working on.
I'm not completely innept when it comes to cars, I'm just inexperienced. This is also why I'm asking you guys what you think & what you would do to your L28 to pull more power from it on a modest budget.
08-13-2009, 11:33 AM
#160
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KA TB = Better throttle response & wider air inlet (with proper porting, of course).
Cressida AFM = Larger for more air & easier than a Z31 ECU/MAS.
Both of these should help the engine breath a little better and get the car where I want it.
I know they're not going to boost HP, but that's not what I want from them.
Cressida AFM = Larger for more air & easier than a Z31 ECU/MAS.
Both of these should help the engine breath a little better and get the car where I want it.
I know they're not going to boost HP, but that's not what I want from them.
I'd say at least 3 or 4. Were they Civics or Accords?
08-13-2009, 12:03 PM
#161
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1 92 Honda Civic with a 96 D16 SOHC swapped in (already done when I bought the car)
I've also owned an 86 Toyota Corolla GT-S and a 92 Saturn SC
I only bought the honda because it was cheap & I neede a car. The Corolla is what I learned to drift on and the Saturn was a reliable car for commuting.
I've also owned an 86 Toyota Corolla GT-S and a 92 Saturn SC
I only bought the honda because it was cheap & I neede a car. The Corolla is what I learned to drift on and the Saturn was a reliable car for commuting.
08-13-2009, 12:27 PM
#162
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Location: Arkansas
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1 92 Honda Civic with a 96 D16 SOHC swapped in (already done when I bought the car)
I've also owned an 86 Toyota Corolla GT-S and a 92 Saturn SC
I only bought the honda because it was cheap & I neede a car. The Corolla is what I learned to drift on and the Saturn was a reliable car for commuting.
I've also owned an 86 Toyota Corolla GT-S and a 92 Saturn SC
I only bought the honda because it was cheap & I neede a car. The Corolla is what I learned to drift on and the Saturn was a reliable car for commuting.
So, if car 'breathes' better while netting no extra HP/TQ, how would one go about measuring how much better it breathes?
08-13-2009, 12:34 PM
#163
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By measuring the amount of vacuum force necessary to pull a specific volume of air in? The less restricted the airflow is, the lower the vacuum force necessary to pull the air in. This would in turn relieve strain on the engine as it would not need to work as hard to pull in the necessary amount of air at full throttle.
I bought the Z because it has a fairly good 50:50 weight balance, RWD, 5-spd, the engine's not huge for a 6cyl & has potential performance upgrades. Ideally, I would like to sell it & get a Corolla again, but that's pipe dreams and I can learn a lot from this car before that day comes.
I bought the Z because it has a fairly good 50:50 weight balance, RWD, 5-spd, the engine's not huge for a 6cyl & has potential performance upgrades. Ideally, I would like to sell it & get a Corolla again, but that's pipe dreams and I can learn a lot from this car before that day comes.
08-13-2009, 12:45 PM
#164
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By measuring the amount of vacuum force necessary to pull a specific volume of air in? The less restricted the airflow is, the lower the vacuum force necessary to pull the air in. This would in turn relieve strain on the engine as it would not need to work as hard to pull in the necessary amount of air at full throttle.
You want to get bigger injectors on the stock ECCS AND
you're going to sit there and tell me that a 10mm bigger TB is going to "relieve strain" on the motor and not add horsepower?
You're hurting my brain
08-13-2009, 12:52 PM
#165
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It may add SOME horsepower, but it's not going to be a significant gain. The responsiveness of the engine would improve more than the power output would.
The bigger injectors can be tuned down, and you're only taking 1/2 my explanation on that one. It would eventually be put onto a build L28 that would reap the benefits of it.
No, I haven't seen the L28ET exhaust manifold, but judging from what everyone was saying about it, it would have better flow than the NA.
On a sidenote, it's amazing how many of you jump all over someone when they don't know what's going on or may not be as technically inclined as you. Of the 7 pages this thread has, I think there's only maybe 2 pages of actual discussion & the rest is trash talk.
The bigger injectors can be tuned down, and you're only taking 1/2 my explanation on that one. It would eventually be put onto a build L28 that would reap the benefits of it.
No, I haven't seen the L28ET exhaust manifold, but judging from what everyone was saying about it, it would have better flow than the NA.
On a sidenote, it's amazing how many of you jump all over someone when they don't know what's going on or may not be as technically inclined as you. Of the 7 pages this thread has, I think there's only maybe 2 pages of actual discussion & the rest is trash talk.
Last edited by awilkie; 08-13-2009 at 12:55 PM.
08-13-2009, 01:19 PM
#167
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Location: Arkansas
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Stock N/A L28 Manifold:
My N/A 6-1 Header: [Just for good measure
]
Which one do you think, after looking at the N/A and Turbo, flows better?
You're getting ragged on because you're making assumptions on things you've heard on the interwebz that are false. It's all ricer math. Bigger TB = Moar pwr!!!
Last edited by flatblack; 08-13-2009 at 01:23 PM.
08-13-2009, 01:21 PM
#168
Oh yeah?! Freak this!!!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Magna, UT
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I've been reading this and I would be interested to hear what the results from your upgrades will be.
Last edited by audiofreak97; 08-13-2009 at 01:22 PM. Reason: me cant speel
08-13-2009, 01:24 PM
#169
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Did I say me?
I was commenting more on the crap that went on for the previous pages.
As for the manifolds, why would PontiacKid post this if the Turbo manifold was not of some benefit?:
"2: Header, I know people say it doesn't give you any gains, but it makes the car sound badass which makes it feel faster lol (only for NA, again, the factory turbo manifold flows MORE than enough)"
I was commenting more on the crap that went on for the previous pages.
As for the manifolds, why would PontiacKid post this if the Turbo manifold was not of some benefit?:
"2: Header, I know people say it doesn't give you any gains, but it makes the car sound badass which makes it feel faster lol (only for NA, again, the factory turbo manifold flows MORE than enough)"
08-13-2009, 01:30 PM
#170
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Did I say me?
I was commenting more on the crap that went on for the previous pages.
As for the manifolds, why would PontiacKid post this if the Turbo manifold was not of some benefit?:
"2: Header, I know people say it doesn't give you any gains, but it makes the car sound badass which makes it feel faster lol (only for NA, again, the factory turbo manifold flows MORE than enough)"
I was commenting more on the crap that went on for the previous pages.
As for the manifolds, why would PontiacKid post this if the Turbo manifold was not of some benefit?:
"2: Header, I know people say it doesn't give you any gains, but it makes the car sound badass which makes it feel faster lol (only for NA, again, the factory turbo manifold flows MORE than enough)"
Even a 6-1 header like I posted above doesn't give any HP gains without a bigger cam and EFI upgrade.
You are being lazy and not looking for answers yourself, you're going off people's passing comments. Keep doing that and be prepared to spend alot of money on worthless parts.
Last edited by flatblack; 08-13-2009 at 01:34 PM.
08-13-2009, 01:31 PM
#171
Oh yeah?! Freak this!!!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Magna, UT
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And I was commenting on your comment about the previous pages. That's what happens on the internet/message boards. Start a discussion about somethng and get a bunch of trash talk in between ontopic posts. 
08-13-2009, 01:35 PM
#172
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Because he didn't say to use it on an N/A car, he was talking about a turbo car :facepalm:
Even a 6-1 header like I posted above doesn't give any HP gains.
You are being lazy and not looking for answers yourself, you're going off people's passing comments. Keep doing that and be prepared to spend alot of money on worthless parts.
Even a 6-1 header like I posted above doesn't give any HP gains.
You are being lazy and not looking for answers yourself, you're going off people's passing comments. Keep doing that and be prepared to spend alot of money on worthless parts.
Also, I have been researching the benefits of each part upgrade and asking questions about what each one would do.
The turbo cars require a higher flow exhaust, so if a turbo car's exhaust manifold flows more than necessary but an NA is recommended to be replaced with a header system for better flow, why would swapping to the turbo manifold not net some flow gain? Seems illogical, does it not?
Also, if the 6-1 didn't give any HP, why did you do it? The cars are loud enough already for it not to be just for sound. :P
08-13-2009, 01:37 PM
#173
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back to enjoying the debating I go...
08-13-2009, 01:48 PM
#175
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How is asking opinions of what someone else would do lazy!?
Also, I have been researching the benefits of each part upgrade and asking questions about what each one would do.
The turbo cars require a higher flow exhaust, so if a turbo car's exhaust manifold flows more than necessary but an NA is recommended to be replaced with a header system for better flow, why would swapping to the turbo manifold not net some flow gain? Seems illogical, does it not?
Also, if the 6-1 didn't give any HP, why did you do it? The cars are loud enough already for it not to be just for sound. :P
Also, I have been researching the benefits of each part upgrade and asking questions about what each one would do.
The turbo cars require a higher flow exhaust, so if a turbo car's exhaust manifold flows more than necessary but an NA is recommended to be replaced with a header system for better flow, why would swapping to the turbo manifold not net some flow gain? Seems illogical, does it not?
Also, if the 6-1 didn't give any HP, why did you do it? The cars are loud enough already for it not to be just for sound. :P
Alright. Do you know WHY a 6-1 Header has really long equal length tubes?
Better flow, less turns, favorable back pressure. Good for N/A applications.
Do you know why a turbo exhaust manifold only has one outlet right out of the head? Turbos use the heat from exhaust gases [which are hottest right after exiting the head] as well as the pressure of the gases leaving the head to spin the turbine in the hot side of the turbo. The 'opening' is a 'T3' port that will accept most turbos with a T3 flange.
AFTER the exhaust gases exit the hot side of the turbo, the less back pressure the better. If there is a lot of back pressure it can slow the turbine wheel down.
You are talking about two completely different things here and you're trying to make an argument over something that you MISREAD.
You need to do some research on basic motor functions before you go off modding your car.
Last edited by flatblack; 08-13-2009 at 01:51 PM.
