Upgrading turbo--or not...
04-09-2002, 01:26 PM
#1
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Location: Tennessee
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Upgrading turbo--or not...
Alright, here's the deal. I'm wanting more power but less lag (doesn't everybody?). Right now, I'm spooling up at about 2800rpm and pulling strong through maybe 4500rpm. With the digital tach it's hard to tell where it's at when the revs get high. Should I stick with the stock turbo and maybe rebuild it, or should I go with a different turbo. I was thinking possibly a T28 ball bearing unit. I'm not wanting a quarter-mile-car. 400hp would be nice, but I'm not really looking to get that. I'm wanting a daily driver that I can take out on the road course and be competitive with. Am I on the right track with the T28 or should I try a different route? Thanks!
Kel
Kel
04-09-2002, 09:08 PM
#2
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Re: Upgrading turbo--or not...
ahhh...the ole' more power but less lag issue...
What turbo do you have on there now? When jumping up to a bigger turbo it's important to not pay too much attention to the boost guage.
For example, my TDO5H-14B on my DSM would hit full spool around 3200rpm or so. When I installed my Frank 4 (60 trim Garrett T04E compressor wheel in an inverted Mitsubishi 20G housing with 3" inlet [25G?]) into my DSM I didn't hit full spool (19+psi) until about 4200-4500 rpm. Even at low boost levels, my Frank 4 felt stronger than my 14B did at high boost levels (IE...the F4 felt stronger at only 8psi than the 14B did at 16psi). It actually felt stronger throughout the entire RPM band than the 14B did.
What size exhaust do you have? Have you done any porting?
Bill
92 GSX
77 280Z
What turbo do you have on there now? When jumping up to a bigger turbo it's important to not pay too much attention to the boost guage.
For example, my TDO5H-14B on my DSM would hit full spool around 3200rpm or so. When I installed my Frank 4 (60 trim Garrett T04E compressor wheel in an inverted Mitsubishi 20G housing with 3" inlet [25G?]) into my DSM I didn't hit full spool (19+psi) until about 4200-4500 rpm. Even at low boost levels, my Frank 4 felt stronger than my 14B did at high boost levels (IE...the F4 felt stronger at only 8psi than the 14B did at 16psi). It actually felt stronger throughout the entire RPM band than the 14B did.
What size exhaust do you have? Have you done any porting?
Bill
92 GSX
77 280Z
04-10-2002, 12:01 PM
#3
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 116
Re: Upgrading turbo--or not...
Everything is basically stock at this time. The only mods besides suspension are a K&N cold air induction, a Ractive straight-through muffler, and manual boost control (turned all the way down). I have a Starion intercooler which I started to install but removed it when I learned it wasn't a very good intercooler to run. I'm still waiting on a second opinion on that matter. I thought any intercooler was better than no intercooler. The rest of the exhaust is stock along with the turbo which I'm guessing has around 200,000 miles on it. I've done no porting or upgrading of the injectors either. Some 420cc injectors are also on the to-do list. The motor does not appear to have ever been rebuilt so I'm assuming the miles are high on it too. I'm not ready to do a complete rebuild right now so I'm not looking to rev much higher than 5500-6000rpm. I know I need to get an intercooler on there before I start turning the boost up along with an RRFPR to keep up with the fuel demands. Am I heading in the right direction with the T28 ball bearing turbo?
Kel
Kel
04-10-2002, 12:44 PM
#4
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Re: Upgrading turbo--or not...
Kel,
Kyle and I bought a TD04 for the project car. Unfortunately we need to get rims for his 300ZX. Currently we have a carbtech manifold with a Turbonetics TD04 that is fairly new. If you would be interested shoot me a e-mail at Yuichi@Zdriver.com. As I was thinking of putting it up for sale soon.
Thanks
Yuichi
ZDriver.com
-Have you had your daily dose of Vitamin Z?-
Kyle and I bought a TD04 for the project car. Unfortunately we need to get rims for his 300ZX. Currently we have a carbtech manifold with a Turbonetics TD04 that is fairly new. If you would be interested shoot me a e-mail at Yuichi@Zdriver.com. As I was thinking of putting it up for sale soon.
Thanks
Yuichi
ZDriver.com
-Have you had your daily dose of Vitamin Z?-
04-10-2002, 06:44 PM
#5
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Re: Upgrading turbo--or not...
Ok, the FIRST thing I would do is to get a real exhaust on that car. AT LEAST a 2.5", but I would go with a 3.0". With a turbo car you can't have a big enough exhaust. Going with a bigger exhaust (and porting your manifolds) will help quite a bit with spool up, especially if you are running cats (get hi flo cats if you are).
Also, unless you are running less than 5psi, an intercooler is practically a must (unless you are running some good water/alcohol injection). The starion FMIC isn't bad at all, considering they can be found in junk yard for pretty cheap alot. I've seen more than one DSM pull some seriously good times with them. However, if I were you, I would seriously consider checking out the FMIC from http://www.turbochargers.com For $480 you get one hell of an FMIC (24" wide). I've ran one on my DSM for about 2 and a half years now and love it!
I'm not a big fan of the T28. For less money there are better turbos out there (you can pick up a "20G" that will outflow the T28 all day long, or you can pick up a 16G for alot less and still outflow the T28 and I can almost guarantee you won't notice the difference in spool very much)
Bill
92 GSX
77 280Z
Also, unless you are running less than 5psi, an intercooler is practically a must (unless you are running some good water/alcohol injection). The starion FMIC isn't bad at all, considering they can be found in junk yard for pretty cheap alot. I've seen more than one DSM pull some seriously good times with them. However, if I were you, I would seriously consider checking out the FMIC from http://www.turbochargers.com For $480 you get one hell of an FMIC (24" wide). I've ran one on my DSM for about 2 and a half years now and love it!
I'm not a big fan of the T28. For less money there are better turbos out there (you can pick up a "20G" that will outflow the T28 all day long, or you can pick up a 16G for alot less and still outflow the T28 and I can almost guarantee you won't notice the difference in spool very much)
Bill
92 GSX
77 280Z
04-11-2002, 12:10 PM
#6
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 116
Re: Upgrading turbo--or not...
OK, so upgrade the entire exhaust-- Here in Tennessee we don't have to worry much about emissions. The laws are there, but rarely enforced. I will probably run without a cat.
Now, once the new exhaust is in place, I should see a difference in spool up with the stock turbo, right? Here is my concern, is the stock turbo efficient enough to run higher boost levels to get me in the neighborhood of 300 wheel hp? Assuming the intercooler is installed and the fuel system upgraded to meet the demands of the boost. From a cost standpoint, I would rather just stay with the stock turbo if it will perform to my expectations. If not, then I will shop for a better turbo. What is a ballpark figure for refurbishing the stock unit, or is that even an option?
I really appreciate your input and advice. As you can see, I'm really quite ignorant on this subject, but thanks to the people on this site, and some magazine articles, I'm starting to learn a little bit. Thanks!
Kel
Now, once the new exhaust is in place, I should see a difference in spool up with the stock turbo, right? Here is my concern, is the stock turbo efficient enough to run higher boost levels to get me in the neighborhood of 300 wheel hp? Assuming the intercooler is installed and the fuel system upgraded to meet the demands of the boost. From a cost standpoint, I would rather just stay with the stock turbo if it will perform to my expectations. If not, then I will shop for a better turbo. What is a ballpark figure for refurbishing the stock unit, or is that even an option?
I really appreciate your input and advice. As you can see, I'm really quite ignorant on this subject, but thanks to the people on this site, and some magazine articles, I'm starting to learn a little bit. Thanks!
Kel
04-11-2002, 05:31 PM
#7
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Re: Upgrading turbo--or not...
I'm not 100% sure on what the stock turbo setup is good to, but I would guess at least 270, unless it's really just a dinky turbo (The T25 is good to about 280, but if I remember right, the ZXT's have a T3 right? I'd say it should push 300hp without too many problems, assuming all of the supporting mods are in place.)
Yeah, usually stock exhausts are quite restrictive and always a compromise for noise. Opening up the exhaust will really help the car wake up.
Bill
92 GSX
77 280Z
Yeah, usually stock exhausts are quite restrictive and always a compromise for noise. Opening up the exhaust will really help the car wake up.
Bill
92 GSX
77 280Z
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