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Tire and Wheel weights vs. grip

Old 11-27-2002, 06:12 PM
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Tire and Wheel weights vs. grip

Hi All,
My friend and I were discussing the difference in wheel and tire weight and the grip area of the tire. He mentioned the
weight savings of using a 15" x 7' wheels with the 9.5"
cantilever slick compared to a 16" x 10" using a 10" slick.
His intended use was for F Prepared Autocross. We noticed
that almost all the F Prepared Z's are using 16" wheels now with the 10" slicks.

For those of you guys who are running the bigger tires and wheels what was the advantage of going to this set up over the lighter 15" with cantilevers ?

He was thinking he could run the 15" wheel and tire package and keep the wheel and tire weight down.

This scenario can also be passed on to the Street Prepared and the Street Mod 2 guys . Almost all the faster cars have moved to the 16" wheels.


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Old 11-27-2002, 10:37 PM
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Re: Tire and Wheel weights vs. grip

Allen,
We discussed the wider 10" slick and the difference in sidewall flex. He was wondering if anyone has ran both
combos , and notice a big diiference . It sounds like you
have done it and you prefered the 22" x 10" x 16" tires
much better. I explained the larger brakes , and he agreed.
If you take out the larger brake factor the the 13" x 10 " slicks
would be almost the same width. He is still in the planning stages and is trying to research all his options.

Thanks,
Mike

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Old 11-28-2002, 01:54 PM
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Re: Tire and Wheel weights vs. grip

Allen,
You answered a bunch of my questions with this last post. I was very interested in the Nitrogen
in the tires. Are you using a commercial nitrogen bottle with a desicant (sp) type dryer inline ?
I was wondering why more guys weren't using nitrogen , it is way more stable then air .

The guy who is building the F Prepared car just ran an enduro where Greg and the Porsche
also ran. I think that is one reason he is finally all fired up to finish hiw car. He will be posting
here after the Holidays as well.

Interesting note about the fuel in a dark container. I assume some kind of break down occurs
when it is exposed to light, or soemthing to do with tempratureof stored fuel.

Tom Holt gave me email addresses for several other F Prepared guys and I will try to get them
over on the forum as well.

Thanks so much for your time,
Mike



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Old 11-29-2002, 07:20 AM
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Re: Tire and Wheel weights vs. grip

Hi Guys,
I'll second what Alan says about the cantilevers... when I got started in the class, I ran 15x8s with 23x9.5x15 slicks. They work pretty well, but I don't think anyone is going to win Nationals on them. The sidewall flex is too much and you get goofy wear patterns, that kill a tire if you don't flip it on the rim fairly often.
Next let me clear up a little misinformation that Alan threw out... 16x10 is the max wheel size in FP period. All reference to 12" widths was removed a couple of years ago and they are no longer allowed with or without a weight penalty in the class. I never fully agreed that they were ever legal except on some specific cars where 12" max was listed. I kind of wanted to see a protest to clear it up, but it never happened.
Also, as Alan said a lot of his prep work is for track events. Details such as nitrogen in the tires for solo only is overkill. It surely doesn't hurt anything, but there is not enough heat built up in a 50 or 60 second run to where it will help. It might reduce the amount of air you will need to bleed between runs, but it is minor.
Good discussion...
Tom
FP29

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Old 11-29-2002, 10:59 PM
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Re: Tire and Wheel weights vs. grip

Hey Britt,
If you want aluminum and don't wan't to pay $400 plus a wheels you can check out Circle Racing
at the link below they have 16 " x 10" in the Road Race section for $289 ea. Tom I believe is running
Complete Customs , and Dr. Sideways has Panasports. Correct me if I am wrong guys

I have a lead on fiberglass fenders with flares being made by a friend of Doug Piner a E Production
Road Racer. I did notice how must of the F Prepared guys were either using home made or ZG type
bolt on flares.

Mike


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Old 11-30-2002, 07:03 AM
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Re: Tire and Wheel weights vs. grip

The cheapest aluminum 16" wheels out there are Real Racing Wheels available through R&S Racing http://www.rsracing.com/ The 16x10s are about $225 apiece. Probably not quite as light or sexy looking as the Circle wheels but they are about $60 cheaper and I know of several National Champs who run them, including Ron VerMulm who owns R&S. He's a good guy and will help you as much as you need... That's also where I get my tires.
As someone mentioned, my wheels are Complete Custom Wheels and cost $260 each 5 years ago. They are a 2 piece wheel... I don't think they make 2 pieces anymore. they were never an advertised offering so you would have to call CCW and ask John his website is http://www.ccwheel.com/ but when I just checked, he now has **** links at the bottom of his page... ? Wheels at the top, **** at the bottom... that's a weird way to run a business. He makes a good wheel, but I can't comment on his ****.

Tom
FP29

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by spudz on 11/30/02 09:12 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
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Old 12-02-2002, 10:07 PM
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Re: Tire and Wheel weights vs. grip

Tom,
What back space are you running on the 16" x 10" wheels ? I thought that 4.5 " to 5"
works with the coil overs.

Mike

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Old 12-03-2002, 06:35 AM
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Re: Tire and Wheel weights vs. grip

Mine are 5" backspace... That works best with the smaller flares and coil overs. That's running the Hoosier 22x10x16 slick or the Goodyear 23.5x10.5x16. If you want to run the bigger 23.5x11.5x16 slick you will need bigger flares and might need less backspace. If you get the 4.5" backspace and run the smaller tires, you might have to go to the wider flares, but they MIGHT come close to working with the stock diameter springs. That's just a guess. You need to measure your setup to confirm it will work.
That's probably more than you wanted to know...

Tom

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Old 12-07-2002, 10:09 PM
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Re: Tire and Wheel weights vs. grip

Tom,
I emailed John at Complete Custom and this was his reply on the 16 " x 10 " wheels.

" if this is ust for autox the real wheels would probably be the best choice (they'll be the lightest and the least expensive and a 3 piece wheel modular wheel as opposed to a welded 2 piece wheel like the circle). circle apparently recently lowered thier pricing on the 16's and wouldnt be a bad alternative. my wheels would be overkill for an autox app (be around 16 lbs and cost about 400, i used to make a 2 piece welded wheel like the circle that ran about 275, but dont offer it anymore except possibly in 16x9.5 or 16x8).

john 888 577 0144 "

I like a guy who is honest about his product ...

BTW .. the **** links didn't come up on my browser. They might be some kind of pop
up that hooked on when you opened his site.

It looks like Richard is running the Real Racing wheels in this picture on your web site.



Sorry the photo is so big , but its a direct link to the one on your web site.

Mike

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Old 12-10-2002, 07:29 PM
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Re: Tire and Wheel weights vs. grip

Britt,
I have a set of Diamonds right now I used for my BSP Z. They are the 15 X 8 's and they
are really heavy wheels, but inexpensive and nice quality.

Here is a pic of them on my friends Street Mod car. He let me drive it the last two events of
the season.



Mike

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Old 03-17-2003, 09:09 PM
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Moving old Threads over to new board
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