2+2 Conversion to TT a bad idea?
 

I have a '90 2+2 that needs a new engine. I was originally going to put one of these low mileage JDM NA engines in I see on eBay for $1000 or so. While it was out it only makes sense to do some mods. Plans were to do headers, test pipes (I live in Alabama - woohoo!), air intake and a JWT ECU. I have not bought most of this stuff yet so if any one has it used for sale - please let me know.

Anyway, I figure we'd be up somewhere between 270 & 300 hp. I have a little room to spend some more money and was even thinking of putting in some TT injectors and a JWT NOS system. This should push us up close to 400hp, which sounds a bit better b/c I have a Harley F150 with a few mods pushing nearly 500hp and I wouldn't want my truck to be faster than my sports car! But the problem is that JWT NOS is 'spensive! But I am not really interested in a wet system.

So I am wondering, since I am replacing the engine anyway, should I just switch over to a TT? It sounds like a mechanics nightmare, but is it? What all is involved? I mean besides the obvious: engine, turbos, intercooler, & ECU. Is there much else to do?

And if I do, what cost-conscious things should I upgrade as well. What kind of turbos are a bargain for added gain? What intercoolers are better and not very expensive? I have a very experienced Nissan mechanic doing all the work, but as I'll be paying for all the labor, let’s consider that as well. I am not interested in super expensive parts with killer hp, it’s just if I am going to buy an intercooler, I'd rather spend an extra $50 to get a better one, if you know what I mean. And seriously, if someone had a heavily modded TT that they wrecked – I’d be very interested in that.

I have about $3k to spend, but I can go a little more if necessary. Mainly I just feel stupid dropping $6k in a car I couldn't sell for 5 (running of course).

Now if you are wondering why I don't sell the 2+2 and just get a TT there are 3 reasons. 1) All the money I put in the Z would be just to "fix it" as far as my wife is concerned. A car swap to a TT would be a little obvious. 2) I enjoy carting around my kids in the backseat. 3) my slick top Z is very unassuming in its rare gold color. If I ever got it going fast, I planned on getting the license plate “SLEEPER” heh heh.

What do ya'll think?

PS Who sells interiors now? I used to see them on ztoys.net but they are gone. Katzkins only sells the seats. I was going to have the whole interior switched over to suede while it was in the shop when I realized ztoys was gone.

wouldnt a SLEEPER license plate kind of defeat the purpose? As for the interior click here

2+2 TT conversions are great IMO for the fact that they weren't ever sold in North America. I know many that want to do that, just to do something different. FYI, VERY HARD to get 300 hp out of a N/A engine without nitrous, and I'm not so sure about that 400 figure. Upgrades to the N/A's give you minimal increases and a guy on 300zxclub has 206 rwhp and he has much of the "wanted" mods. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the JDM N/A engine rated at lower horsepower then the USDM?

The engines are rated at the same horsepower, the only thing is that N/A engines were not sold as much in other countries as here in the US. Actually, a 2+2 Z would be the ulitmate Z. Steve Millen and other Z enthusiasts have agreed that 2+2 TTs actually handle better at high speed vs the 2+0s. The longer wheel base is credited for that. Z1 has done a number of 2+2 TT conversions, I was lookin at one today they did out at their shop. ( thats a perk of livin in GA, i m near alot of shops) They can talk u through the build, or they could do it for u. I know u will need one of their drive shafts, the lenghs are different. It ould deffinitly be a sleeper, cause not many guys have them. I know I am wanting to yank the TT motor out of my TT car and drop it into my Hard top to make it TT. I have only seen one factory tt hardtop. And then there was Ashs TT hardtop that has sadly been wrecked. I say go for it!!!!!!!! It would be cool to if you could custom fit a HICAS system with the N/A rear end. FAST ACCELERATION+GREAT HANDLIN+3 SCREMIN FRIENDS= one good time pinnin your friends to the seat when the boost comes one.

To be honest there is no such thing as cheap hp on a Z, if you do get cheap parts then you need the proper connections and I "might" be able to give you a hand. Unless you totaly know how to weld and have all of the proper equipment to do it yourself, if not then you are kinda in a bind. I think the TTZ2+2 idea is the best one in the world, in Japan the 2+2 TT exists (I almost imported one for myself) Engine swaps are fun if you know what you are doing and you know what you are getting into. If you want the cheapest, most relyable turbos on the market go with HKS, another good engine to look at is the RB series engine but it's going to be a pain in the ass to find the wireing harnasses. HICAS is possible on the 2+2 same with the TT exhaust only problem is you need to find all the parts in Japan (very expensive) because you need it to be extended, proper fittings and it's never been done (you will be spending like $5K alone in the HICAS). Yes Steve Millen used the 2+2 because he needed to fit the gastank towards the center, the TT was too short thus throwing off the weight distribution. You have great ideas but none of them fit anywhere near your pricerange. I think it's totally worth it if you are willing to spend some major cash. You will be lucky to get the engine alone with $3K with out the wireing.

Ditto to comments below. Unless you are an experienced mechanic, I would find someone to do it for you. (The fact that you asked leads me to lean it that direction. Pls, no offense intended.) Yes, it will set you back some dollars, but you seem to be using terms that indicate you may be ready for that.

My attitide has always been "so what if you have to ship it half way across the US and then let them work on it for a month or two?" Z1 has done this conversion, BTW. You could trailer it yourself down in a long weekend...or drive it and then fly back. Just thinking out of the box.

My one bit of advice regards emissions. Contact your local DMV and understand their requirements. If you put a 96 engine in a 90 car, what do you tell the poor attendant at the emission's station? Understand that 90-95 electronics are very different from 96 (US) and 96-99 (JDM and europe). If you get a new engine, what electronics come with it? (Heaven help you if you don't get the wiring harness with the engine!) You will need to know the answer to that question when you go to sell it.

Keep us posted on what you decide. Some of us are green with jealousy! ;)

Yeech! Are you a glutton for punishment? :-)

Nah I was thinkin show appeal..goin the extra mile would be awesome. i dont think that even the TT 2+2s in Japan came w HICAS. If u custom did that, although I think the rear cradles are the same, you would be another step above everyone else. The only ting is that you SHOULD keep the N/A rear end cause it is better than the TT unit. U dont need to import anything, you could if u wanted too, but why pay shipping. Z1 has alot of wrecked Zs with perfectly good engines. I am about to swap a USDM '92 TT into my '92 N/A slick top Z. I got lucky when i bought the car b/c the year model is the same, so i will have no legal problems. The only difference I can really tell about the US engines vs the JDM ones is that the JDM ones come w down pipes where the USDM cars are equiped w pre catalysists. Like always, the japs get the good toys and we are left wishin.

By the way, Z32TTGirl huh? Ok being the teenager I am. How old are you? I m curious cause if u were my age I would probably marry u? Where I live u dont even get noticed unless u have a jacked up truck. Imports are only thought of as equals to HONDAS, somethin lower than Mustangs and Camaros. But that all changed when I challenged a few of the american muscle boys to run me at the local drag stip.

I m off topic I know, first and last time i ll do it. Promise! :doh:

Slicktop 2+2?

Personally, i think your 3k isn't going to be enough for what you wish to do. Visit the Z1 website to get an idea what a motor swap would generally cost and the parts/labor involved.
Just take a general look around in my link page for aftermarket parts that you possibly wanted to add during or after your swap. Good luck.

There is no such thing as a 2+2 slicktop...is there? They only came in the 2+0 variation. Post some pics of your car Peach, i think we all want to see this. Post ur VIN# i want to see what it came with factory

Im 18, and already taken ;) I know most of my knowledge because I have been working on engines since I was like 3yrs old with my dad. Not to mention I am a member of Z-sport of SanAntonio all of my friends are like 30+ years old and are also Z-freaks. Agreed with being noticed, I live in Texas South Tx at that, where the big rednecks are, but Angel does attract some attention. Well back to the topic, your ideas are quite interesting and I would love to see it be done! Keep us updated. Remember anythings possible you just need to put in the effort ;)

Dang it!! I m 17, ahh. That sucks so bad. I m happy for you, but that sucks for me. I know that sounds mean in a way, but its true

I think everyone has pretty much said what needs to be said. Basically, in a nutshell, if you only want to spend $3k, Stick with the N/A. Add a few mods and have some fun. You won't get to 300hp unless you go through the whole block. You won't get 400hp as an N/A, unless it's with another motor.

What do you have an your F150 Harley edition that get is to 500hp???

Okidoki - this is to everyone - thanks!
 

Holy Smoke - Talk about response! Thank you to all who responded.

I guess I'll hit everything one at a time, in order.

Yes, a SLEEPER tag would be somewhat defeating, but is been a childhood fantasy so whatrugonnado? But it’s a bit retarded and likely not going to happen. And thanks very much for the interior link.

Yes, TT 2+2’s were sold in Japan for the Z32, and I believe a few other places as well (Australia is another I think). Outside of going to some Italian beauties, a RHD 99 2+2 would be the dream ride for me. My hp numbers come straight from JWT, and I am sure they were all crank, not rwhp. I don’t have time to find all the source info, but its all at JimWoflTechnology somewhere. The numbers were: ECU, Air intake, upgraded exhaust = 270hp. I would be adding headers and deleting some cats, so that would figure another marginal gain as well.

Not the direction at all I want to go. Lots of money and I am not sure it is even a good idea. I have read more than one time that TT racers disable the HICAS b/c it just is not all its cracked up to be. Another one of those great engineering ideas that turns out not to be so great. I consider it a weight advantage right now that I don’t have HICAS.

I never intended to come off as being cheap! But the key for optimal gain on limited part swap is to know exactly what mods one intends to do and have the ECU programmed exactly for that. The sad part is these exact mods on a TT yield about 400hp. When first bough the Z a few years back, I actually had a long conversation with Jim Wolf about all of the “intelligent” upgrades. Most of what learned from him has only been affirmed over the years. I also became sold on the idea that a dry NOS system that he recommends is very safe/intelligent system and would get you to 400hp. Plus, being there is no lag, it would beat an otherwise comparably equipped TT. I don’t care about that so much as I don’t race, but put you back in the seat acceleration cannot be faked. Anyhow, the previous mods are ~$1500 retail. The dry NOS alone would be another $1500.

Also, I although I am not interested in cheap parts, a set of used Stillen headers don’t perform any worse used imho than they did new, so if someone was parting out there modded z, I am an interested party.



I am a shade tree mechanic myself, it is just that time is becoming a scarce resource, and if I were to start in on this it be too long before it would be done. I’d be better off doing part swaps, one at a time. My mechanic, Tommy, who has done about 6 JDM engine swaps and is a gold mind. I had an acquaintance who owned 2 Nissan dealerships before retiring. He claimed Tommy was the best 300z mechanic for 500mi, and I haven’t seen anything to disprove that.

The reason I was looking at JDM was none other than those engines are very low mileage & look superclean, according to Tommy. He is the first person I should have asked about this and I haven’t yet, so I’ll post what he tells me later. I was figuring on about $2000 for a new NA engine installed, based on what I see on eBay for engines and what Tommy says it’ll cost for an install. I have seen a couple of people parting out TT’s with their engines & acc. parts selling for $1500. I am curious just how much harder the TT was to install.

About those emissions. Heh heh. I said I live in Alabama, which may not mean anything to you, but that essentially means, if it runs, you can drive it. Nobody EVER looks at the car here. Not the TAG people, not my insurance lady. Nobody. I don’t wan to get off on a tangent, but that is the LAST thing I am worried about. I have lived in a number of states, and they were all assholes about this stuff, except Alabama. Here, it’s like a tuners heaven.

And
Whoops! I feel like a dumbass. I had forgotten about the 2+0 w/o ttops and interpreted the term slick top I had read in a few posts before posting mine to mean a z without any wings messing up the just incredible look of z32 (which I absolutely hate btw). Sheesh, I feel so stupid. I KNEW this. Anyhow, you are totally correct, the slicktop was ONLY available in a 2+0 config. Thanks for clearing that up.

As the TT’s weren’t available as slicktops either, one with a TT dropped in it truly is a inspired machine! No HICAS, strong frame, not extra interior weight. Wow, that could be light as hell. Good luck!

About the USDM vs JDM. I would much rather find a USDM with 20k miles on it, but those are nearly impossible to find. Everyone has 100k. The japs really don’t drive theirs as much and a 20-30k mi engine is that weird for them.

Oh, this thing is a beauty! It has of course the lightening engine and it doesn’t take much! Look at options “E” and “F”. http://www.rpmoutlet.com/lightning.htm I haven’t dyno’d it yet, but there is absolutely no way this doesn’t have of 500hp at the crank. I am hoping for 450 rwhp.

Straight Shot 95mm Mass-Air/Cold-Air
Superchips Tritune Max Micro Tuner
Accufab "Big Oval" Throttle Body (Billet)
C & L Trueflow Inlet Pipe
Motoblue™ "Qc" Crank Pulley Kit 8+ Lb
Ngk Iridium Spark Plugs
Jet 170° Low-Temp Thermostat
Heavy-Wall Stainless Steel 1-5/8 Long Tube Headers
No-Cat Hi Flow Mid-Pipe Stainless Steel 2-1/2
O2 Sensor Extensions
Magnaflow Stainless Steel Cat-Back

As the TT’s weren’t available as slicktops either, one with a TT dropped in it truly is a inspired machine! No HICAS, strong frame, not extra interior weight. Wow, that could be light as hell. Good luck!

Actually, they did offer a twin turbo slick top granted they are RARE. They could only obtained by special order through a nissan dealership. I have only seen ONE real slicktop TT and, like most, was stipped down and turned into a race car. The only other TT slick top i have ever seen is Ash's old burgundy car and the frankenstein project I am about to create here soon.

Here is apic of the car, it is sittin in Z1's showroom here in Carrolton, Ga.

On a wild hair I put the three children in the Z and cruized around the neighborhood. 1st gear around 1800RPM and nailed it. Revved 'till about 4500RPM. Three screeming kids pinned to their seats. It was a very rewarding experience. And cheaper than a TT conversion.

You single guys in your fast cars ain't go nuttin on us older guys! :hpydance:

so what If U have kinds pounding on your seats. we got girls and 3 pairs of breasts ready for a wild as orgy. he he he aint got nothign on that. :bling:

Hey bardabe I dont think u should tell to many people that. The legal age is 18 remember that..or you'll end up like R Kelly. Besides..most of these guys on this site has daughters. Guess you lost any datin privilages. And your 15 anyway, dude your askin to go to jail. Drivin is onw thing, but underage with three passenger. Your cop would have a field day.

Still I'd rather mine anyday...but thanks for the response! ;-)

lol..... he he well shit I wichI could actually my Z is a 2seater. plus my girl is 15 also. I just got with her. btu yeah never thought I'd actually find a girl. i'm too picky but i found her. :D i still want the orgy tho. lmao :headspin:

Kids and their puberty..

... :rolleyes: so?

exactly and 2nd.

point proven.

dude aren't U supose to be in my side rizz? lol

Um...no.

I'm not on anyone's side. As a mod, i really can't be.
I agree and disagree as i see fit, just depends on the topic. :p

Um...no, Bardabe. :rolleyes:

If you want you Z to have more power than your truck, then your going to have to blow on it (add turbos). That F150 is in the ballpark of 500hp at the crank, but the loss through the drivetrain is going to be more than 10%. We usually see approximately 20% through the drivetrain of a Z with a manual tranny. I bet you'll be in the 380-420 HP range at the wheels. Just my .02.


Are we still on a $3k mod budget, because if we are, we're well over that with the mods that you're discussing.

Boy, you gotta love generation Y :rolleyes:

no tt conversion
 

Thanks. You are right on all accounts. I haven't dynod the truck, yet I'm at some point going to get a friend in Mississippi who is always tuning Lightenings and Harleys and has a dyno to do it, but I'm expecting about 520-540 crank hp right now and 16-18% loss for between 425 and 450 rwhp.

To get the same horspower out of a 3.0 liter as a modded & blown 5.4 is not realistic on a $3k budget. Always knew that. But an ecu, air intake, and good exhaust alone will bump a TT to close to 400 crank hp and that should be enough. That Z is a helluva a lot lighter than my truck. That truck is downright sluggish given the hp it has. Most of the modded TT Z's I driven "felt" faster. I'm not into racing really, but when I hit it, I don't like competition for the passing lane.

It all about econmy of dollars. If I can boost performance significantly with a couple extra grand, what's that on a $40k truck? This Z needs a new engine thats $2k on the low side. So what if I spend $3k? Just how much better is it? What will it take?

I actually spoke with Luminar on the phone and we had a candid conversation about the conversion. It's not simple, and runs typically about $7k. Thats a fair conclusion, and too much money for this car. it is not like it was a show car or in perfect condition.

So, the consluion is, keep it NA, bump the exhaust air intake, ecu, injectors and a dry nos system. That should run between 3 & 4k and be plenty of hp.

Thanks for all the advice!

I accept on behalf of 91 :hpydance: . LOL jk..

slicktop tt engine swap
 

anyone do swaps? or know of anyone around COLUMBUS ohio???

thanks
let me know

Go to Rizz's link page, assuming your new..I will search for you.

https://www.zdriver.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8434
Anything you need to know can be answered here.

How much have you read about nitrous oxide? I personally don't like it and don't feel that it should be listed on any modification stage charts. I'll never even think about putting it on my car. It fries the pistons. That is probably the only thing that was somewhat accurately portrayed in Fast and The Furious. NOS shortens the life of your engine.

All HAILTHe MIGHTY RIZZ :bow: :bow: :bow:

After frying the pistons, I don't understand how he was able to make a high speed getaway whilst the cops are chasing after him. Dam Universal Stuidos and their gimmicks. :doh:

Ahhh screw Riz :D

If you get your hands on a Slicktop, I would seriously recomend dropping in a Twin Turbo powerplant, that car would deffinately move. And Z1Motorsports out of Georgia does Twin Turbo swaps for about $8,000. Not cheapa by any meansa.

What year slick top do u have?
I ve got a '92 N/a slicktop and a '92 TT. I am about to do an engine transplant between the two. I ll have a TT Slicktop, and a N/a with Hicas! i am going to do the swap myself, and have Z1 dyno tune the motor when i get done. I am waiting right now to do the swap so that i can build up some money to replace a "few" parts on the engines while they are out. i may also respray the engine bay while they are out too.
Good luck on your swap, post some pics of yours. I am curious to see other slicktops.

I have a slicktop. Its a 94 with only a few mods, mostly suspension stuff. I wish I could afford to do a tt swap, but $8g's is :bling: that I dont have. My wife just tells me to be :hpydance: with what I have.

I dont see why it costs so much. Thats why i m going to do it. i m 17, and do all my own motor work. Pullin an engine is nothing. The only thing is that i will need to rent a engine hoist, two tranny jack stands, and two engine stands. The rest of the motor work I will do myself. What i cant i get help from a few friends in the automotive business, and do it myself w their guidance. i am anal when it comes to those who work on my car. i trust Z1, but I am tryin to save myself a few bucks. College is soon, and I want this done before then. I am guestimating that if all i do is swp motors, with Nissan parts some performance. I m lookin at about a grand in parts. But if i tear into the motors, then the price goes up. Z1 has the full write up for stuff they have found out with swappin TT-N/A N/A-TT. There are only a few things that I can forsee as being a pain when it comes timw to swap motors.

Yah, I believe a person did it for like 4 grand completed with their own labor.

Ooo you sound like me when I first dove into my Z project... Your confidence drops drastically the first 15-30 minutes into the project.

But you may be able to get away with this one alright, seeming as your just swaping motors... Who knows.

All I can say is good luck.

hmm u said screw rizz. I think ure a bit cocky dude. and as far as you doign the TT convertion really? how long it take ya. what was the most pain in the ass???

Bardabe,...NISMO was kidding about the comment to Rizz. He knows his stuff about swaps.

thamn, NISMO is back!!! havent seen you in a while. whats up?

Just chillin' guys... Been working a lot lately, so I havent been online mucho. So I figured I'd stop by the good old ZDriver.com and see how my fellow Z Car Fanatics have been :)

Good news is, I may have a Z by the end of this summer. An actual, working Z. Im trying to get my hands on a 1992+ 300ZX, automatic, 5Speed, Twin Turbo, Non-Turbo... Whatever really, as long as it has good mileage, and is a good shape.

But we'll see...

God, I knew it would happen... Riz has groupies now, haha :p

:rolleyes: not the groupie thing again...

Man Nismo, haven't talked to you in a long time. I got a new Z and am looking in to a TT Conversion. Still sell the front clips? IM me man.

Yea I've been around dude... Im not really into the business personally anymore, but I can still provide clips to whoever wants one. Just hit me up at NISMO LMR and we'll talk about it.

What all is there needed to swap a N/A to TT? I m mainly lookin for a list of factory parts..assuming the clutch and what not are still good. I know I will need new power steering lines or something like that. And few other things, but what I dont know. Any help you guys?

Well for the Twin Turbo swap... There are a variety of ways to get it boosting... Let me just list a few ideas I've seen personally.

Full Twin Turbo swap:

The easiest way to go about this, is of course, get a clip. The clip comes with everything you will need to swap the powertrains. Including the things that are often looked over, such as the Twin Turbo radiator, radiator shroud (these are all shaped differential to accomidate for the boost piping) the MAF, sensors... Little things of that nature.

If all of these things aren't in place, the swap wont work as efficiently. When I was in the business, I would see VG30DETT Clips run from $3,000 for a 5Speed Clip, to $2,500 for an Automatic Clip. Not too bad considering the amount of parts you are getting. The clips I handled with, came with everything from the dashboard forward, including the RHD set-up. So you get the engine, transmission, ECU/M (Engine Control Unit/Module) EFI (Electronic Fuel Injection) harness, all sensors, brackets, mounts, intercoolers, miscellanious parts... Everything. Even the body panels.

But as in most clips, tweaking is neccesary to get the car running properly, because chances are, the powertrain has been sitting still for years in some Japanese wreckers yard.

Twin Turbo Transplant :

The most complicated way to go about getting the true-tag, Twin Turbo, isnt too simple... I've seen this done, and although it is cheaper, it is also MUCH more time consuming, and not practical unless you have the proper tools. IF YOU DONT HAVE THE TOOLS, THIS IDEA IS USELESS!

Breaking down a VG30DE to bear block, and swapping in ALL Twin Turbo components, including pistons, crankshaft, connector rods, cams, heads, hardware, sensors... I mean ALL components. Because you've got to think, the compression ratio goes from 10.5:1 (VG30DE) down to 8.5:1 (Twin Turbo)... If you try and cheap it, by simply spacing out the heads with a thicker bronze gasket, it wont last long, and you'll have a serious headache on your hands... Like 91zxtt says 'if you dont have to time to do it right, will you have time to do it over?'

So after you've got everything done in the engine, its time to do your new EFI Wiring. This is virtually impossible to do with the engine in, so its best to accomidate that need :D

The secure your ECU/M in place, then bolt up the transmission. Slide everything in with a cherry picker, make sure everything is connected, fire it all up, and begin the tuning process... This description does this project NO justice at all, and it is nowheres near as simple as it sounds... So have patience if you choose to take this route, because it a long, trying one.

... But the last option is probably the most ideal...

BUY A TWIN TURBO:

... Kind of self-explainitory, and the most practical...

Now I can understand doing a swap if you have a 2+2 or a Slicktops or a 'Vert. And hell, even if you have a coupe, its a great idea. And I completely understand wanting more dash out of your flash car (hence: You put a lot of money into appearence, and want the horse power to match it)...

But in the case that you simply want a Twin Turbo... Just buy one. Swapping powertrains is not easy, and it is a lot easier just to buy a car, that came stock with everything in place.

One thing I left out, is the gear ratio issue.

Once you have your Twin Turbo powertrain in... You've got to think about the gears in the Rear End as well. A common modification to do for Twin Turbo owners, is to put the Non-Turbo Rear End in (RV200). This is mostly a drag racers modification... The Non-Turbo's RV200 has 4.080 gears, making the launch and over all run much tighter, thus you increase your over all low end speed. 4.080 as opposed to the Twin Turbos 3.270 (RV230) is a hell of a difference. But granted, your over all top speed will decrease drastically. So this set-up would only be for drag racing, or if your into real close turn auto-crossing.

What I've seen once is the Non-Turbos transmission AND Rear-End on a VG30DETT. He stuck some balloon walled slicks on the stock wheels (the car looked over all like a stock 'ok' condition 1990 Coupe Non-Turbo) and the car was running awesome, pulling high to mid 12's with mild modifications. But I bet his top speed as about 130mph haha

Just some interesting things to consider.

Hope this helps a bit... If anyone needs me to elaborate on anything... Just ask.