omniserv

Hello,

Now that I have my 280zx running good I'm moving onto my much awaited Z31 NA to Turbo conversion. See the pic below, she's a 100% stock car and a show winner. Of coarse this conversion will negate the "STOCK" class..lol

I have been planning this for a few yrs and have 2 junk cars to get most everything I need. I know what needs to be done and I'm confident it will be lot's of fun and a rewarding experience, esp since my 16 YO son will be helping and learning about cars as we go. We recently replaced the shocks, struts and springs on all four corners.

Ok on to my question.

Has anyone had any experiance with turbos sold on ebay as "UNIVERSAL T3/T4 TURBO TURBOCHARGER" ?

You can see one listed here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Although I have 2 parts cars sadly neither have a good turbo in them. So I'm looking for a good used or new one. After looking at the prices I was surprised that I could get a new turbo for under $200.

What's with the T3/T4 hybrid design? Would this work? Makes me wonder how much custom work I'd need to get it to fit. I do own a sheet metal fab shop and a business partner of mine has a machine shop so I could make just about any part I'd need.

Another question is if you were going to do the conversion and didn't want to add a boost control/intercoolers etc what turbo/boost would you use?

My original plan was to use a stock OEM turbo.


Thanks

Chris

NismoPick

Yep... we've discussed "ebay turbos" many times. There is a reason they are cheap. It's because they are CHEAP.

To answer all your questions at once... get your turbocharger checked out and rebuilt (if needed) by a professional. Expect a $300-$500 price tag that will come with a warranty. Check your local phone book / yellowpages for a turbo shop. If you can't find one, call a local diesel repair shop... they will know where to take it.

If you need more detailed info on turbochargers, I suggest you read:



AND

Flacster

I have an 86 oem turbocharger which the same for the 87 if ur interested. Just send me a pm.

omniserv

I know they are cheap, but has anyone actually bought and used one?

Flacster

read this article too. http://www.redz31.net/pages/turboupgrade.html he has a small section about cheap ebay turbos and upgrading to a nice turbo.

reddzx

I would not trust a cheap eBay turbo. They are cheaply made with loose tolerances and have been known to come apart at high RPMs and destroy your engine. Some things you should not cheap out on and the turbo is one of them.

Use your stock T3 turbo and have it rebuilt and upgraded to T3/T4.

This is one of the most respected turbo rebuild shops in the country. They do alot of business with the Z31 community. call them, talk to Joel and ask about rebuilds and upgrades. You ship it to them and get it back in 8-10 days.

Arizona Turbo & Tractor Supply
3445 North 29th Avenue
Phoenix, AZ 85017-4906
(602) 253-9953


Here are some recommendations

http://z31performance.com/forum/view...rizona+tractor

omniserv

Thanks for the info. I guess I didn't think about them flying apart. I ordered one of those books too. If nothing else my son can read and learn more than I can teach him.

omniserv

Wow just read the write up. Copied what he said below. Thanks guys for saving me from making a big mistake. I checked the feedback on all those ebay turbos and all of them are good for the most part. But I think the reason is that it takes so long for ppl to actually install the cheap Turbos that they leave positive feedback before they even know what they have.

"This turbo is complete garbage! DO NOT even think about buying one of these on ebay, you could end up getting screwed like I did. They are all over the place with cheapass names like XS-Power, superpower, etc etc. Usually selling between $350 and $450 and featuring auctions that contain no real information about the product, these turbos are cheap knockoffs of the actual thing. The supposed "stage 3 turbine" they included with it was the right bore size, but was absolutely not a REAL garrett stage 3 turbine. The seat for the compressor wheel was machined incorrectly, causing this brand new turbo to hammer the compressor wheel into the housing, sending shards of aluminum into my intercooler piping. I ended up with a wrecked turbo and a bunch of pipes to clean out, but considering what happened I was actually lucky. The seller refused to answer my e-mails and it was just out of the time period that PayPal can take action. DO NOT BUY ONE OF THESE TURBOS; YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!"

NismoPick

Copied this thread to the Gen Tech area so it can easily be accessed on the next "Are ebay turbos good?" thread.

omniserv

Yes my first sticky......

omniserv

I just called Arizona Turbo and talked to Joel. What a nice guy he spent 30 mins telling me a lot about the turbo I have and what he'd suggest I do next.

I know that anytime I need turbo work I'm calling him.

tonsoffun300zx

hey you want to sell me the t3 off your 86 turbo?

omniserv

After talking to Arizona Turbo I think I'll be using it.

NismoPick

And he told you what?

Flacster

I called myself also and spoke to Joel. For like 5mins tho lol. I'm going to be upgrading my turbo lol.

omniserv

Joel told me a few things.

The China made turbos have been known to blowup, but he said you'd find that out the first time it went to boost. If it didn't blowup then you probably got a good one and it will probably last a long time . He also said a few of them actually used Garret internal parts but there's no way to tell for sure.

The cost to rebuild a stock Nissan T3 runs around $200 depending on what it needs.

The cost to covert one to a T3/T4 Hybrid (T3 exhaust, T4 intake) runs about $350.

I asked him about the turbos I have, one of them off a 84 didn't have the water cooling ports and other from a 86 did. He said that the water cooling doesn't really help all that much, provided you let the turbo cool down after a run. In fact he seen just as many non water cooled turbos vs water cooled needing repair. Many of his customers don't even bother hooking up the water ports on them at all anymore.

I also asked him about the end play I have in one of my turbos and he said as long as the blades do not rub on the housing it is nothing to worry about.

Besides some jokes here and there that all we talked about.

hoov100

That guy sounds questionable in his knowledge in the use and engineering behind turbo's.

NismoPick

x2 on that... Sounds like he's still stuck in the 80's when turbochargers were new to the auto market.

omniserv

His comments about the shaft end play was based on the fact that the turbo I have had been out of a car for a long time, he said the bearings float in oil and that the end play would be taken up by the oil pressure.

Also about the water cooling, he did say it would help but not 100% necessary, with proper care when ie letting the turbo cool down there should not be a problem. I tend to agree with him, otherwise Nissan would not have made the 84 Z31 without water cooling.

You might be right about his info being from the 80's. He did say that he's been rebuilding them for over 30 years.

NismoPick

Huh? Your statement actually proves the advantage of water cooling:

Why do you think Nissan introduced WATER COOLED turbochargers after 84? Almost all turbochargers are water cooled these days... Do you think manufacturers just throw in the extra design for no reason?

tonsoffun300zx

yeah i talked to him and i told him i wanted to be boosting 1 bar on my t25 and he told me that i should be getting upwards of 30+ lbs on the t25 turbo and he said B.B. turbos aren't that good cause they can't be rebuilt at all.

omniserv

I guess I'm looking at it as I'm putting a Turbo on a 24 year car that already has 137K on it. I'll probably drive it a lot but even than we won't put anymore than 3000 miles a year on it. 3000 being on the high side, so I wouldn't be worried about the long term reliability of it. Plus I'm going for a stock setup and boost.

Yes you are right water cooled is better it only makes since. But each application is different.

AZ-ZBum

I would like to hear why you disagree with him. What did he say that's wrong and why is it wrong?

Which is great when you're talking about a 1980s car and using a 1980s turbo. What's the problem?

Nissan did this because people are idiots and don't read owners manuals. The water cooling only really helps slightly if you're a moron and shut the car down immediately after a high boost run. Oil in the passageways is not much different from coolant. It's just also a lubricant.

There is a reason bugs and 911s never had coolant. They didn't need it. They were designed to be completely oil cooled. Same concept.

hoov100

I'm going to break this down into separate quotes so we don't get things mixed up.



Shaft play is ALWAYS something to worry about, especially when a stock T3 turbo at 8psi is already spinning 150k RPM. From what we can both assume, he was probably exaggerating it a little, or the poster isn't telling us everything that was said, or the poster lost something in translation when over the phone.

[/quote]
Because we live in the year 2011, Turbo, metallurgy, computers, blade design and manufacturing have improved ALOT over even the past decade, let alone a turbo that was designed in the early 80's using 70's technology.

Nissan did this to make the turbo last longer. A car driving over a long period of time on the freeway will heat up that turbo alot, even if you aren't on the gas much. Plus of course there is the added benefit of having a faster cool down.

They didn't have water cooling, because the engines they used where air cooled! The life of an oil cooled journal bearing turbo is proven to be shorter then that of a water/oil cooled turbo used in the same manner. You can go to any road course and ask around. There is also a damn good reason why just about every turbo car made from 1985+ is water cooled.

omniserv

I did tell you everything he said about the end play. I even asked him 2 times and had him repeat what he said. He did not have anyway over the phone to tell how much end play I had, but I told him what I intended to use the car for and he was confident in my description that the end play I had was not bad enough to worry about. He said "if you can not force the turbine blades to rub the housing by hand I'd be fine"

Again keep in mind I'm only planning a stock Z31 turbo conversion. Not going to use any boost controls, inner coolers etc. Plus not planning to race this car, just for my son to drive it to school a few times a week. Plus maybe some car shows on the weekends.

I'm sure if I told Joel that I was going to make other performance up grades his assessment might have been different.

Again I agree with Joel, given what we plan to use this car for. We are only trying to make it a little more fun to drive. Compared to our 2004 Maxima that makes 260HP from a 3.5 engine the Z31 NA at 160HP is a dog. Hell even our 1995 Dodge Mini van makes 165HP although a little heavier it feels faster than our cool looking 300ZX.

We get a lot of looks when we drive our bright red Z31 anywhere, but when the light turns green we are underpowered compared to most newer cars. We live in the richest county in Indiana and seems everyone has newer more powerful cars. I happen to think the 300ZX looks better than 90% or them, it would be nice to just keep up.