Well... THIS is new.
11-30-2011, 12:56 AM
#1
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 903
Well... THIS is new.
Ok... I've had this '83 na for 13 years now and I know it's wants and needs to the point it scares even me sometimes. However, today has me stumped.
It took longer than normal to start (more that 3 seconds) which was extremely strange. I don't ever need to keep the key in the "start" position longer than a second and it fires right up.
Next, it idled really strange. Not like it was missing, just really low rpm. I went to give it some gas, and it stalled out...didn't want to start back up right away. Took a few tries before it even wanted to turn over.
Got it running and went down the street for about 100' where it stalled out at a stop sign. Cranked it up again by rubbing the dash and telling her, "Everything will be fine...just get me to work."
Once I got to the highway and up to speed it ran like nothing was wrong.
So, I'm thinking two things:
1. Time for a tune up.
2. My timing is off badly.
Oh, I also have a pretty decent exhaust leak where the manifold meets the block. Could that have anything to do with this?
It took longer than normal to start (more that 3 seconds) which was extremely strange. I don't ever need to keep the key in the "start" position longer than a second and it fires right up.
Next, it idled really strange. Not like it was missing, just really low rpm. I went to give it some gas, and it stalled out...didn't want to start back up right away. Took a few tries before it even wanted to turn over.
Got it running and went down the street for about 100' where it stalled out at a stop sign. Cranked it up again by rubbing the dash and telling her, "Everything will be fine...just get me to work."
Once I got to the highway and up to speed it ran like nothing was wrong.
So, I'm thinking two things:
1. Time for a tune up.
2. My timing is off badly.
Oh, I also have a pretty decent exhaust leak where the manifold meets the block. Could that have anything to do with this?
11-30-2011, 07:26 AM
#2
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 11
Hmmm
Has there been a big change in weather lately?
Any idea if the battery is up too snuff, or how old it is?
Battery cable connections cleaned and tight?
Good ground on negative battery cable?
Lastly might be a fuel pump starting to give up, easily checkedd w/ a fuel pressure gauge when it's "doing it's thing", ie not running well.
2nd lastly - how old is fuel filter?
3rd lastly - almost a perfect description of "driveway dieout" - takes multiple keying attempts before it will smooth out and run good. Usual cause is extensive intake valve deposits that are soaking up the fuel intended for the combustion chamber, kind of like charcoal and lighter fluid. Once intake valve deposits are saturated, then the correct amount of fuel can enter the comb. chamber and get a good ratio of fuel to air and run properly, otherwise it's really lean.
Have you ever had an air induction and fuel system cleaning?
Any idea if the battery is up too snuff, or how old it is?
Battery cable connections cleaned and tight?
Good ground on negative battery cable?
Lastly might be a fuel pump starting to give up, easily checkedd w/ a fuel pressure gauge when it's "doing it's thing", ie not running well.
2nd lastly - how old is fuel filter?
3rd lastly - almost a perfect description of "driveway dieout" - takes multiple keying attempts before it will smooth out and run good. Usual cause is extensive intake valve deposits that are soaking up the fuel intended for the combustion chamber, kind of like charcoal and lighter fluid. Once intake valve deposits are saturated, then the correct amount of fuel can enter the comb. chamber and get a good ratio of fuel to air and run properly, otherwise it's really lean.
Have you ever had an air induction and fuel system cleaning?
11-30-2011, 10:52 AM
#3
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 903
Change in weather: Well yeah, it's trying to be winter. I live about 10 miles East of San Francisco and it's been foggy as all get out over the past few days.
Battery is about 2 years old.
Battery ground is solid and clean.
Don't have a fuel pressure gauge, fuel filter is about 2 years old. Fuel pump has quite a few miles on it.
Never Seafoamed the car due to where I live. Probably get the fire department called on me!
Battery is about 2 years old.
Battery ground is solid and clean.
Don't have a fuel pressure gauge, fuel filter is about 2 years old. Fuel pump has quite a few miles on it.
Never Seafoamed the car due to where I live. Probably get the fire department called on me!
11-30-2011, 12:37 PM
#5
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
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Frick, I thought about that too. Do I need a new set of plug wires? Probably. Brand new MSD Blaster II coil, plugs look normal... could probably use a new set, but they honestly look fine.
Weird thing.... I have a disco dash. When it stalls, two lines at about 2k and 5k on the tach flicker and then stay on.
Weird thing.... I have a disco dash. When it stalls, two lines at about 2k and 5k on the tach flicker and then stay on.
11-30-2011, 02:13 PM
#6
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 18
Sounds like moisture in the throttle position switch connector.I used to get that in my 81 turbo from washing down the engine compartment or if it was really damp.I just got an 82 n/a and experienced the same thing with it just the other day.The car would not rev past 2k or idle good.popped the spring clip and blew it out and she ran fine after that.
11-30-2011, 06:36 PM
#7
I've been having a problem that is slightly similar to this. Might want to try checking out your Fuel Pressure Regulator. It can cause low pressure when it's trying to start and uneven pressure to each cylinder.
12-01-2011, 01:15 AM
#8
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 903
Threw in a new air filter, some STP fuel treatment in the tank (along with a fill up), cleaned off the CHTS connection and it ran like a champ today.
That damn CHTS plug will be the death of me!
That damn CHTS plug will be the death of me!
12-19-2011, 01:01 AM
#9
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 903
Well... I guess 19 days isn't bad for a quick fix. But this issue is back. My brain is scattered because of my crazy work schedule so I'm not thinking about this right.
So... could someone offer some advice again? It's been dry here and about the same temperature for the past few days so I'm betting against anything moisture related. This is my only car (besides my wife's Urban Assault Vehicle which she needs to get to work) so fixing this issue is paramount. I'm just at a loss right now.
So... could someone offer some advice again? It's been dry here and about the same temperature for the past few days so I'm betting against anything moisture related. This is my only car (besides my wife's Urban Assault Vehicle which she needs to get to work) so fixing this issue is paramount. I'm just at a loss right now.
12-19-2011, 11:41 AM
#12
Grumpy & Helpful
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mill Creek WA
Posts: 1,415
General stuff to do.
GEt your battery load tested. Be sure you have clean, tight corrosion free terminals on both ends of your battery cables. Be sure the ground (negative) cable goes to a bolt into the frame before going to the starter. grounding through the starter is not a reliable connection. Z's don't like low voltage. causes the electronics to act funny. it is possible to have enough amps to crank but not enough voltage to run the electronics. If you have one size fit all cheapo clamp on terminals they are a problem waiting to happen.
Clean the connectors for the maf, ecu and tps. Deoxit by CAIG is probably the best connector cleaner on the market. spray with CorrosionX after cleaning and before putting together this will help prevent any further corrosion.
If you have a serious exhaust leak it can be heating the fuel line to the point where fuel is vaporizing. hold your hand there and see how hot the fuel line is if it is in a location where the exhaust leak can heat it.
check your fuel pressure with a gage. this will tell you if either the fpr or fuel pump are malfunctioning. chts connector is same as the fuel injector connector just replace it (solder the wires and cover with heat shrink.)
My 83 had a bad starter which worked to start the engine but pulled enough amps that it dropped the voltage enough to disrupt the electronics. When the starter quit and I replaced it lots of gremlins went away. Z's dont' like low voltage!!!
GEt your battery load tested. Be sure you have clean, tight corrosion free terminals on both ends of your battery cables. Be sure the ground (negative) cable goes to a bolt into the frame before going to the starter. grounding through the starter is not a reliable connection. Z's don't like low voltage. causes the electronics to act funny. it is possible to have enough amps to crank but not enough voltage to run the electronics. If you have one size fit all cheapo clamp on terminals they are a problem waiting to happen.
Clean the connectors for the maf, ecu and tps. Deoxit by CAIG is probably the best connector cleaner on the market. spray with CorrosionX after cleaning and before putting together this will help prevent any further corrosion.
If you have a serious exhaust leak it can be heating the fuel line to the point where fuel is vaporizing. hold your hand there and see how hot the fuel line is if it is in a location where the exhaust leak can heat it.
check your fuel pressure with a gage. this will tell you if either the fpr or fuel pump are malfunctioning. chts connector is same as the fuel injector connector just replace it (solder the wires and cover with heat shrink.)
My 83 had a bad starter which worked to start the engine but pulled enough amps that it dropped the voltage enough to disrupt the electronics. When the starter quit and I replaced it lots of gremlins went away. Z's dont' like low voltage!!!
Last edited by rogerz; 12-19-2011 at 11:46 AM.
12-21-2011, 12:47 AM
#13
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 903
I had a couple of extra minutes today, so I messed with a few things. Got my little wire brush out and went over the connections for the CHTS. Didn't disconnect the battery cable but cleaned off some corrosion, didn't have much. Wiggled the cables a bit. Car started right up. On my next day off, I'm going to have to get under the hood and clean stuff off.
Oh... now I have a strange noise that sounds similar to a supercharger under the hood. Can't really pinpoint where it's coming from, but I can feel it through my stick shift. I probably really don't want to know what that is.... But if someone has a clue, let me know.
Oh... now I have a strange noise that sounds similar to a supercharger under the hood. Can't really pinpoint where it's coming from, but I can feel it through my stick shift. I probably really don't want to know what that is.... But if someone has a clue, let me know.
12-21-2011, 09:08 AM
#14
Mr Z++ Wiki
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 2,195
Check the resistance of the CHTS from the connector of the ECU. That will tell you what the resistance the ECU is seeing (and thus what temperature it thinks the CHTC is running at). Check in the FSM as it will tell you exactly how to do it and it has a graph for the thermal sensor so you can cross reference your resistance reading to a temperature. That way you're not guessing as to what's going on with the CHTC....
12-26-2011, 05:46 PM
#15
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 903
Found the issue... Badly arched coil wire. Pretty much turned the wire at the connector to dust. I guess the vibrations from trying to start the engine would be enough to kick it over. The car wasn't going for it today. I started pulling everything out and cleaning it. Even went and bought a new battery (needed one anyway). What I did to tie me over...
Cut the coil wire about 3/4" back and cleaned off the crimped end where the arch was happening. Stripped the wire back another 3/4" and crimped the connector in place. Lucky for me I had an extra wire boot. The original one had melted away on the bottom side where I couldn't see it. Tomorrow, new plugs and a fresh set of wires all around.
Cut the coil wire about 3/4" back and cleaned off the crimped end where the arch was happening. Stripped the wire back another 3/4" and crimped the connector in place. Lucky for me I had an extra wire boot. The original one had melted away on the bottom side where I couldn't see it. Tomorrow, new plugs and a fresh set of wires all around.
