New 280ZX owner preping for 24hrs of Lemons
10-04-2011, 08:48 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: El Cerrito, CA
Posts: 94
New 280ZX owner preping for 24hrs of Lemons
Hi folks. This is my first time posting here. In all honesty I've been more of a BMW guy, primarily with the old '73 BMW 2002 that I've been restoring for the last six years or so. Anyway, some friends and I finally got off our you-know-whats and decided to do a 24 Hours of Lemons race. Our trusty steed of choice was an '81 280ZX that was actually run at one Lemons race already by another friend of ours. Previously it had been stripped, had a rollcage put in, and that was pretty much it. As such, we are now trying to "take it to the next level" prior to racing at Buttonwillow in early December.
As many of you likely know, the key restrictor for Lemons is the $500 budget so we need to find performance and reliability improvements that can be done free (just elbow grease) or very cheaply. Things we are leaning towards are yanking the AC system as well as the majority of the smog system. Would love to hear any suspension advice you might have (currently stock I think and understeers quite a bit) as well as brakes, engine tweaks, weight balance, etc... Thanks so much, in advance. Should be fun!!
The Lemons Ride:
My "other" baby:
As many of you likely know, the key restrictor for Lemons is the $500 budget so we need to find performance and reliability improvements that can be done free (just elbow grease) or very cheaply. Things we are leaning towards are yanking the AC system as well as the majority of the smog system. Would love to hear any suspension advice you might have (currently stock I think and understeers quite a bit) as well as brakes, engine tweaks, weight balance, etc... Thanks so much, in advance. Should be fun!!
The Lemons Ride:
My "other" baby:
10-05-2011, 10:38 AM
#2
Welcome to ZDriver!!! 
Our long time member & admin LWW frequents that race. I think he has several Z's that he uses:
https://www.zdriver.com/forums/showt...ghlight=Lemons
https://www.zdriver.com/forums/showt...ghlight=Lemons
https://www.zdriver.com/forums/showt...ghlight=Lemons
Looks fun! And I dig your 2002!
Our long time member & admin LWW frequents that race. I think he has several Z's that he uses:
https://www.zdriver.com/forums/showt...ghlight=Lemons
https://www.zdriver.com/forums/showt...ghlight=Lemons
https://www.zdriver.com/forums/showt...ghlight=Lemons
Looks fun! And I dig your 2002!
10-05-2011, 12:13 PM
#3
The Evil Twin
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 9,294
hey, welcome to Zdriver!
Nice Datsun 510 ....
Look into the "Z31 ECU" swap on your 280ZX. That can be pretty cheap or free if you trade parts. I'm not sure what all is allowed on your budget. That would improve torque and hp
Nice Datsun 510 ....
Look into the "Z31 ECU" swap on your 280ZX. That can be pretty cheap or free if you trade parts. I'm not sure what all is allowed on your budget. That would improve torque and hp
10-05-2011, 01:57 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: El Cerrito, CA
Posts: 94
Thanks guys, we are really looking forward to running the car, it should be a blast. Thanks for the tip on the MB springs, I'll check into those. These are exactly the types of tips I'm looking for, so please keep them coming. Will also check out the provided links to the other Lemons efforts, perhaps I'll get lucky and there will be a build blog in there.
10-06-2011, 12:26 PM
#6
The Evil Twin
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 9,294
To keep 'some' independent suspension travel in the rear, if you install those Mercedes springs, you may want to just remove the rear sway bar completely. Hopefully you have some time to experiment with the handling.
10-06-2011, 10:12 PM
#8
Big Poppa
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
For what it's worth tires are going to be one of the biggest improvements. If you can get sets of used slicks it'll really be worth it. Just a better coil and good tune up will yeild cheap good results
10-06-2011, 10:17 PM
#9
Big Poppa
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
Oh just forgot. Try and raise the compression. If you have a p series head. Swap to an n or e series. It will yield cheap power without the machine shop. Although the p series is better flow you have to deck off 80 tho to make use of it which means more cost
10-07-2011, 08:02 AM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: El Cerrito, CA
Posts: 94
Thanks again. Used slicks are something I've been wondering about but wasn't sure if they'd meet the wear rating guidelines set by the Lemons administrators. Need some more investigation on this. How about brake pads? I think we've got a stock brake set-up on there right now. I've had good luck with Hawk HPS on my 2002 but what has shown to be a good pad for the Z calipers? We have a spare set of PBR MetalMasters, but at least on my 2002 I thought they were awful, no bite at all.
As for the P vs. N vs. E head, which years and models do they come out of? Would dropping an N or E head on there be a direct bolt on swap?
Any thoughts on the validity of pulling the AC system and smog stuff? Any significant HP gains or better cooling?
As for the P vs. N vs. E head, which years and models do they come out of? Would dropping an N or E head on there be a direct bolt on swap?
Any thoughts on the validity of pulling the AC system and smog stuff? Any significant HP gains or better cooling?
10-07-2011, 10:27 PM
#11
Big Poppa
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
Pulling ac off is a must for weight and to get better airflow to the rad. The heads are all interchangeable and bolt on. There are charts and online engine calculators to figure specs out. For your budget if you have a p series I'd dump an n47 on it and be done. The bump in cr out weighs the flow of the p series. Now spend cash on the p and it's a different story. But we are talking cheap here. Just get the total timing to 36-38 and your golden
10-08-2011, 11:35 AM
#13
Mr Z++ Wiki
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 2,195
Thanks again. Used slicks are something I've been wondering about but wasn't sure if they'd meet the wear rating guidelines set by the Lemons administrators. Need some more investigation on this. How about brake pads? I think we've got a stock brake set-up on there right now. I've had good luck with Hawk HPS on my 2002 but what has shown to be a good pad for the Z calipers? We have a spare set of PBR MetalMasters, but at least on my 2002 I thought they were awful, no bite at all.
As for the P vs. N vs. E head, which years and models do they come out of? Would dropping an N or E head on there be a direct bolt on swap?
Any thoughts on the validity of pulling the AC system and smog stuff? Any significant HP gains or better cooling?
As for the P vs. N vs. E head, which years and models do they come out of? Would dropping an N or E head on there be a direct bolt on swap?
Any thoughts on the validity of pulling the AC system and smog stuff? Any significant HP gains or better cooling?
http://www.modern-motorsports.com/ca...hp?cPath=26_39
http://kvrperformance.com/shop/index.php?cPath=2
10-09-2011, 12:39 PM
#14
Head Muckraker
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 9,221
Sorry, I've been a little pre-occupied and haven't been on the forum in awhile.
4 things:
1. Maximum Brakes
2. Maximum Camber
3. Maximum Cooling
4. Minimum Weight
Everything else is a waste of time, money and reliability in this race.
http://www.lpiracing.com/showsearchr...bmit=Go+%3E%3E
Take several sets of brake pads and rotors, there's no budget penalty for brakes since they're considered a "safety" item.
Get a drill or grinder and slot your shock towers and push them in as far as they will go to get maximum camber. You can cut the springs to lower the ride height but you'll sacrifice preload on the springs. Get some good used shocks if you can find them. I would go with the Tokico Blue's. If you get new bushings, don't get Urethane, you'll get nailed in the BS inspection. Jay Lamm is a Z Car guy and knows all the tricks!
Have the radiator dipped, flushed and pressure tested. Most Z cars fail in this race due to cooling problems.
Get rid of all the AC stuff. Strip out everything that doesn't absolutely have to be on the car for the race.
Have fun and I'll see you at Buttonwillow!
4 things:
1. Maximum Brakes
2. Maximum Camber
3. Maximum Cooling
4. Minimum Weight
Everything else is a waste of time, money and reliability in this race.
http://www.lpiracing.com/showsearchr...bmit=Go+%3E%3E
Take several sets of brake pads and rotors, there's no budget penalty for brakes since they're considered a "safety" item.
Get a drill or grinder and slot your shock towers and push them in as far as they will go to get maximum camber. You can cut the springs to lower the ride height but you'll sacrifice preload on the springs. Get some good used shocks if you can find them. I would go with the Tokico Blue's. If you get new bushings, don't get Urethane, you'll get nailed in the BS inspection. Jay Lamm is a Z Car guy and knows all the tricks!
Have the radiator dipped, flushed and pressure tested. Most Z cars fail in this race due to cooling problems.
Get rid of all the AC stuff. Strip out everything that doesn't absolutely have to be on the car for the race.
Have fun and I'll see you at Buttonwillow!
10-09-2011, 08:51 PM
#15
Head Muckraker
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 9,221
Thanks again. Used slicks are something I've been wondering about but wasn't sure if they'd meet the wear rating guidelines set by the Lemons administrators. Need some more investigation on this. How about brake pads? I think we've got a stock brake set-up on there right now. I've had good luck with Hawk HPS on my 2002 but what has shown to be a good pad for the Z calipers? We have a spare set of PBR MetalMasters, but at least on my 2002 I thought they were awful, no bite at all.
As for the P vs. N vs. E head, which years and models do they come out of? Would dropping an N or E head on there be a direct bolt on swap?
Any thoughts on the validity of pulling the AC system and smog stuff? Any significant HP gains or better cooling?
As for the P vs. N vs. E head, which years and models do they come out of? Would dropping an N or E head on there be a direct bolt on swap?
Any thoughts on the validity of pulling the AC system and smog stuff? Any significant HP gains or better cooling?
Porterfield R4 brake pads are your friend. Pick up an extra set of rotors from NAPA or Kragen to keep as spares. DO NOT spend extra money to get drilled or slotted rotors. They have LESS material to absorb heat and will ruin your brakes and likely warp and or crack prematurely under race conditions.
Don't mess with a head swap. Because of the long deck and the dissimilar materials (aluminum head on an iron block) they are prone to breaking head studs and disturbing this mating is a recipe for disaster unless you're familiar with these motors. If it's a high mileage motor you typically need to surface the head when it's pulled to true it once it's off the block.
This race is not about having the most power or the best handling car. It's about staying on track, avoiding contact and driving clean.
Very few LeMons winners are the most powerful cars on the track. In stock form the L28 has awesome mid-range torque and will be the best setup for a new competitor at Buttonwillow.
The key to your first race is driving clean and safe and not beating up the car so it'll last the whole race.
Have fun!
Last edited by lww; 10-15-2011 at 09:13 PM.
10-10-2011, 08:28 AM
#16
L-Dub, are you still using the stock 280zx calipers & rotors w/ Porterfield R4's?
I've wanted to upgrade my brakes for track time, but I've always been nervous that anything relatively stock is going to give out after the 2nd hairpin turn...
I've wanted to upgrade my brakes for track time, but I've always been nervous that anything relatively stock is going to give out after the 2nd hairpin turn...
10-10-2011, 12:51 PM
#18
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: El Cerrito, CA
Posts: 94
Thanks for the great input LWW. We are having a wrenching session on the car this weekend so I'll post up any specific issues we come across. Where abouts in the Bay Area are you? I'm in the Berkeley/Oakland area. Any Z hot spots I should know about? Dismantlers, spe******t shops that might go easy on a Lemons team, cheap parts sources, etc...
10-10-2011, 10:21 PM
#19
Big Poppa
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
Nismopick I've been thinking the same. The stock type non metallic pads just don't cut it and I've been looking for better replacements. Stop tech has metalics and ceramic but I've heard less than enthusiastic reviews
10-15-2011, 09:08 PM
#20
Head Muckraker
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 9,221
Yes, Porterfield R4 for the track and R4S for "regular" driving. The R4S is less aggressive and will preserve your rotors for a little longer but both are VERY messy. As in they generate a LOT of brake dust so you'll need to clean your wheels off a little more frequently than you would for some NAPA brake pads.
The most important thing is the fluid. It is FAR more important than calipers or pads.
Use DOT5 and flush the ENTIRE brake system. I don't want you punching me off the track because you lost your brakes over Lost Hills at Buttonwillow!
The most important thing is the fluid. It is FAR more important than calipers or pads.
Use DOT5 and flush the ENTIRE brake system. I don't want you punching me off the track because you lost your brakes over Lost Hills at Buttonwillow!
Last edited by lww; 10-15-2011 at 09:13 PM.
10-15-2011, 09:12 PM
#21
Head Muckraker
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 9,221
Thanks for the great input LWW. We are having a wrenching session on the car this weekend so I'll post up any specific issues we come across. Where abouts in the Bay Area are you? I'm in the Berkeley/Oakland area. Any Z hot spots I should know about? Dismantlers, spe******t shops that might go easy on a Lemons team, cheap parts sources, etc...
I'm in the East Bay in the Dublin/Pleasanton area. There aren't really any specialty places in the Bay Area other than Z Car Garage in San Jose.
Everything else is pretty much a crap shoot at Pick-n-Pull.
10-16-2011, 07:26 AM
#22
Big Poppa
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
yeah already got dot 4 in there, boiling point is pretty high on that compared to the dot3 crap. ill have to look up those pads, i dont daily my car anymore year round like i used to, so messy isnt a trouble, brake dust washes off. dont care if my rotors get eaten either, they are kinda cheap and i get good prices, i just hate these non-metalic raybestos and other name brand crap that fades after 4 hard stops, they dont even mark the rotor up at all.
10-16-2011, 08:27 PM
#23
Mr Z++ Wiki
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 2,195
Yes, Porterfield R4 for the track and R4S for "regular" driving. The R4S is less aggressive and will preserve your rotors for a little longer but both are VERY messy. As in they generate a LOT of brake dust so you'll need to clean your wheels off a little more frequently than you would for some NAPA brake pads.
The most important thing is the fluid. It is FAR more important than calipers or pads.
Use DOT5 and flush the ENTIRE brake system. I don't want you punching me off the track because you lost your brakes over Lost Hills at Buttonwillow!
The most important thing is the fluid. It is FAR more important than calipers or pads.
Use DOT5 and flush the ENTIRE brake system. I don't want you punching me off the track because you lost your brakes over Lost Hills at Buttonwillow!
10-17-2011, 07:56 AM
#24
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: El Cerrito, CA
Posts: 94
Thanks guys, more good info as usual. We were able to get the brake system back together yesterday (although I didn't read about DOT5 until this morning, doh!!!) It took us quite a while to figure out that the rear pistons are threaded, so hopefully we didn't damage anything irrevocably trying to force them back into the calipers before unlocking the secret code. No matter what the whole brake system will get one more full run through before race day so DOT5 can easily be swapped in as well as better pads. Next on our list is finding some cheap stock wheels, we've got some heinous pimped 18's on there right now that weight about 30lbs a piece. Anybody got any cheap rims?
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