FubarI33t

To get a turbo block and bore to 3.1, or not to get a turbo block and bore to 3.1. Is a 3.1 Stroker in the future for my Z? How do you feel about this?

texasz

Going to do one for my Z!!

HybridS130

Hmm, chances are it hasn't been done in your immediate area so go for it, im sure it'll yield great power too but, for me it's V8 land all the way.

NismoPick

Read this:

http://zhome.com/rnt/3.1HanveyProject.htm

And check out this:

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme/280zxt/


Just gotta punch out the block, get an LD28 crank, and 240z rods. 3.1L Strokers are nuts! Lots o torque!

FubarI33t

I know i'll need a turbo block, so i can keep at least some kind of cylinder wall. I'll go with the turbo head as well. Bigger T/B along with a spacer, and a JSK fule rail, that is if i can find one.

SHADY280

if you got the coin to do it make a turbo stroker, now thats power.

FubarI33t

I am going to keep it N/A. Just how i am about that. I still want it to be a daily driver, so i am going to have to make the 3.1 Stroker and gas MPG's get along at least a lil. So no turbo.

lww

You got it backwards. The turbo is WAY better for gas mileage when you're out of the boost. It's lower compression so you can run lower octane if you have the discipline to stay out of the pedal.

NismoPick

Bah! I don't think any of us in here can do that!

BTW... my opinion, DON'T spend all this $ on building a stroker, if it's not gunna be turbocharged. An n/a stroker yields about 200 - 230hp... turbo stroker... 400 - 450hp. After you have the engine, the cost of building an n/a or turbo are almost the same.

Here's another completed stroker to look at Fubar:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsu...spagenameZWDVW



A turbo block won't be hard to find. Oh look! Here's one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-...spagenameZWDVW

And here's another:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Nissa...51256359QQrdZ1

frank280zx

No way a goo dstroker puts out at least 300HP.. and it is not about the stroke, but the compression and headwork done!
My friends 9:1.1 compression e31 tripple webers puts out 212 HP to the wheels
a good built NA strocker will be fast ...
And guys you forget it is not about peak power ... but about a flat powercurve !
A torque monsterous flat powercurve NA with say 300 HP wil, on track more than likely outrun a low compression 450 HP turbocar !

I say GO 3.1 with forced internals, and if you want to go Turbo dont go over say ~9:1.1 CR have MsS or better system, and dont run megaboost.. ill bet you will out autox or outrace ( on a track) guys with more peak HP on a stock turbo engine!

jfairladyz

I seriously doubt a 300HP 3.1 liter L28 will outrun a 450HP 2.8 liter L28ET. You gotta remember, having a turbocharger raises the displacement of the engine. While the 3.1 liter motor is probably not even cramming it's own displacement into its cylinders, the turbo motor is cramming a lot more than 2.8 liters. And another thing is that 7.4:1 is only the STATIC compression ratio of a turbo motor. The turbo motor's compression ratio on full boost is enough to make an NA guy queezy. Probably up in the 11 - 12:1 range. Thats why the turbo motor requires so much timing retard to keep from detonating on boost. A T3/T4 hybrid turbo will have excellent low rpm spool and also be able to hit large top end numbers. And once it comes on boost, which isn't long, the torque curve will be just as flat if not more so then the stroker. And incase anyone was thinking about turbo lag then dont forget the fact that in order for that NA to make that 300HP it's going to need a monster cam which is going to move the power band far enough up in the power band that you wont start seeing power til, most likely, after the turbo would've already come out of lag.

Sure they say there is no replacement for displacement. But whoever said that probably never drove with forced induction. A 7.0 liter engine is still going to be very limited in how much power it can make naturally aspirated. But a wee little 3.0 liter motor can make 2000HP turbocharged. Hows that for no replacement for displacement

frank280zx

actually that is not right i ran more than 12:1. comp, and no detonation !

Given i spun a rod bearing, due to lack of oil in right handers ( should have built a baffle!!!)

Anyhow i would dare you to run a High CR 3.1 with any stock turbo base engine ON A TRACK. as yeah on a drag strip the turbo might catch up and win... but z's are not made for teh drags!!..

For instance i could keep up and overtake a 350z and sevreal TT's on track.. as exiting corners ... instant power !!

A turbo might do the same, but NOT on a stock botom end! Peak HP is nice for bragging rights.. not for serious driving.

Low end spoll might work but not with the common set ups, i have t3/4 with a .48 exhaust side.. that will promoto spooling an dallmost eliminate lag, however i want to go up to close to 9 cr.

For 300 NA power the cam does not have to be that bad! Do you guys remember Slingshots car ? Not all that radical.. and i think id put out something like 260HP..

Turbo is nice, and easy bang for the buck .. but not the best thing to built, NA strockers are highly underestimated ! and 3.1 turbos... ooh i need some numbers to back my claim...
But with my NA ~12 cr mild cam .. but fully ported head and worked chambers/valves... im willing to take on most z's with say 15psi on a stock bottomend and head !

NismoPick

Agreed... but that's not what we're talking about.

We are comparing a stroked L28 vs a stroked L28ET only.

frank280zx

In that case look at jeffs car he is capable running about 25 psi of boost ! and makeing somewhat like 300 rwhp at 8 psi !!! he will break 500 for sure !

NismoPick

Yeah... that car is NUTZ!

frank280zx

Some food for the thoughts i will qoute! ' on my builders L6 race engines, he had seen up to a 15 hp difference in power on a 330 hp race motor. Now those were 2.8L motors which had parts they were originally designed for' that is NA power .. , i would go stroker turbo power if i had teh $ ifnot a NA flat piston blick with a p90 head and a turbo !

OldschoolZ

Hey...Somewhat new here. Read alot but 1st time writing anything.

Who is Jeff (last name)? I would like to look up him and his car.

Also, what is the average CR for a Stroker L28ET (w/o any big mods) and what boost is used on average?

thanks

NismoPick

Welcome to ZDriver! Click on the second link of my previous post:

frank280zx

The angelfire site is jeffp' site ( he lives over in CA)

His car is 3.1 liter stroker tubro, but also has over 50K in the car..
Can you say sleeper.

The boost .. well i heard people running as much as 25 psi!
but with the stock system, no IC, no injector or fuel management upgrades ... 10 psi is what i call safe..

Im planning to run round 20 with full MsS ( megasquirt and spark) and a copper HG !

jfairladyz

But that's comparing apples to oranges. Now you're talking about building up an NA motor and comparing it to a stock turbo engine. Thats not fair. You specifically said a 300HP NA would be faster than a 450HP turbo car. If you put either car in the hands of a capable racer then the turbo car will dominate. A capable racer will keep the engine in it's power band so both cars would always be on power. Besides if you figure the turbo motor will run at 110% efficiency then that means it would be displacin 3.1 liters. Just the same as the stroker. But then the stroker isnt going to be nearly as efficient as the turbo engine so it's not even going to use 100% of it's efficiency which means it'll end up displacing less than 3.1 liters in reality. And if the turbo car is kept in it's power band then it would always be making the power of a super efficient 3.1 liter motor running 12:1 c/r. Now odds are the turbo is going to ingest more than 10% over it's natural displacement so it would actually be even more efficient that that

Now stroke an L28 to 3.1 and then turbo charge it and you've got something amazing. At 110% efficiency that would be like running a 3.4 liter motor.

frank280zx

No im talking a astock turbo block .. and im not caring how big the turbo will be on that as it will on stock CR levels it will be peaky, given a good driver will be able to hold decent power .. but it will not help all the way ..
In the start of this post they where pointing at stock l28et vs 3.1's !

Dont get me wrong I love turbo's... But the stock Cr level of our tubro cars is just ... wel LOW... it has potential to give high Peak HP, but my next step for my 2+2 is swapping a complete worked E88 i was using on my High CR engine on teh stock turbo block to see what it brings ( it will be running MsS)

My friend and i built a Euro flat top ( raised squiz pads) p90 combo, and turboed that .. and it had smooth flat powerband.. i hope it will eb near that ...
In my opinion for overall allround peformance on tracks, autox and street, with us driving ... a flat curve with nice torque will create a fast car.

jfairladyz

Agreed. I think a higher compression ratio would be ideal for a lower horsepower turbo engine. I plan to raise my compression ratio a bit as well. I'm only looking for maybe a good solid 350HP overall. With a raised compression ratio and stroked to 3.0 liters that number will come easy with a T3/T4 and still run easily off of pump gas (with a non stock means of engine managment of course). With the higher compression ratio there will still be power off boost for coming off stops and what not. My focus is to build a street car first. But to have enough potential in it to enjoy it at autocross and cruising through the backroads and what not.

For now though I'm just trying to get this turbo motor back together so I can put her on the street again. Aside from the rotating assembly this motor was in pretty rough shape and alot of thing just keep braking or or found already broken or damaged.

FubarI33t

I am not looking for crazy power. Just a lil more HP to haul my hevy 2+2 around, with a lil power. I like to be uniqe, and runing juat a L28ET around here won't be so uniqe do to it's a stock turbo. But a 3.1 Stroker made from a L28E motor, non turbo, that shows that you know how to work a motor, and hell, it's hard enough to find a 280ZX on the road let alone a 3.1 Stroker Z, Every one around here has heard of a 280ZX and the turbo version as well. But no one has ever heard of a 3.1 Stroker Z. Plus i don't really feel like messing around with a turbo. I know where i am gona get my Turbo block for the build up at. I am just hopin it has the F54 block. I have no clue what year it is, All i know is it is a Blue 280ZX Turbo 2 seater with auto trany. All i am going to use from it is block and head, But i know that the intake and exahust maifold is comeing with it, so when it get's here, first one to call them, they will be your's, just pay shipping. Don't don't be killing each other for them, till they get here. I have been looking for a LD28 Crank since April of 05, and there are non around here whats so ever, So i might just have to go with the 1,800$ kit from ZCarPart's.com. that kit is overpriced tru, but it will alow me to get this build going with out haveing to wait two year's to get my hands on a LD28 Crank.

jfairladyz

All turbo blocks are F54. So dont worry about that. If it's an 83 then it will have the hydraulic head. That's either a good or bad thing depending on who you talk to. If the lifter are in good shape then I think it's a good thing. They're quieter.

NismoPick

So you're going to build an n/a stroker from a turbo setup? Well... whatever honks your horn there buddy.

I've said this before, and I'm sure it's not the last time, but I TOTALLY disagree about people saying "Building an n/a setup proves you know how to build an engine." Bah! So the Lingenfelter Twin Turbo LS1 isn't as well engineered as the stock GM LS1? A lot of people don't understand that building (CORRECTLY) a turbo motor shows much more potential / skill / knowledge than just building an n/a. Yes, we know a lot of people have a tight budget... but designing an engine to withstand 15:1 CR at full boost, takes a lot more skill than popping in some performance pistons, crank & cam, and calling it a modified n/a. Why not use a freebee when it comes to hp? Turbos are easy free power from the exhaust!

Ok... so there is my rant.

Now... I would suggest NOT buying the MSA big bore kit, unless you are all out of time & options & MUST have a stroker ASAP. There's at least one LD28 stroker crank on ebay every other week that sell for $150 - $250. So don't just give up yet.