Webbing Removed
03-01-2006, 06:26 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hey guys! New to zdriver, but i just wanted to say sometihing about removing the webbing from the turbo inake. First of I personally think it is a bad idea b/c it actually decreases heat dissipation. Example say there are two peices metal that I need to heat up. The first peice of metal is 1 inch thick and 2 feet wide and the second is 1/2 inch thick and 1 foot wide. It would take much longer to heat up the first peice of metal becuase it has more surface area to heat up and would dissipate more heat also. Think of a heat sink in a computer. The fins allow air to cool more surface area. Just trying to say that the engineers of Datsun/Nissan were not idiots when they put the webbing on the turbo intake to compensate for the extra heat that the turbo produces. Thanks https://www.zdriver.com/forum/images...es/biggrin.gif
03-01-2006, 06:38 PM
#27
Originally Posted by ZXturbo11
Hey guys! New to zdriver, but i just wanted to say sometihing about removing the webbing from the turbo inake. First of I personally think it is a bad idea b/c it actually decreases heat dissipation. Example say there are two peices metal that I need to heat up. The first peice of metal is 1 inch thick and 2 feet wide and the second is 1/2 inch thick and 1 foot wide. It would take much longer to heat up the first peice of metal becuase it has more surface area to heat up and would dissipate more heat also. Think of a heat sink in a computer. The fins allow air to cool more surface area. Just trying to say that the engineers of Datsun/Nissan were not idiots when they put the webbing on the turbo intake to compensate for the extra heat that the turbo produces. Thanks
Originally Posted by NismoPick
I would agree, except there is one great fault to the L28 setup... the exhaust manifold right underneath the intake. Once the engine gets up to operating temp, it heats up that intake manifold quite a bit. If you have open runners & a good air flow (our famous NACA 280zx hood scoops), it will disperse heat a bit better.
Originally Posted by jfairladyz
Yeah I dont think that webbing is doing anything but hindering the dissipation of heat. The heat has no where to go but sink into the intake manifold with the webbing there. With the webbing gone the heat can pass right through and vent through the hood. Leaving a fin on either side of each runner though would help with the dissipation for a little while. Once that aluminum gets so hot though it doesn't matter cause it can only dissipate so much heat. Also, it might be a good idea to leave some sort of webbing in there to support the runners. You'll notice on the early manifolds without the webbing there is still a little near where it attaches to the head. I think the webbing is just there for ease of casting. The casting mold probably lasted longer by leaving the webbing in there. Where as with just casting the runners individually complicated the sand mold and probably didn't last as long. It's most likely just a case of what was cheaper for Nissan. I'm sure they went to the non webbed manifold temporarily cause it ran cooler, but ended up not being worth the cost.
03-01-2006, 08:37 PM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
As great as the heat dissipation would be it's better if the heat can just bypass the intake manifold altogether by going between the runners. Energy always takes the path of least resistance so the manifold would probably maintain a lower operating temperature if heat were allowed to bypass it as opposed to leaving the metal on there to dissipate that heat. Another thing too is that as the engine compartment heats up the air directly around the manifolds is going to get too hot to efficiently dissipate the heat away from the manifold so now the webbing is a heat sink and not a means of dissipation. The hood scoops are designed to vent heat from the engine compartment. So if you open up the intake manifold by removing the webbing then the heat from the exhaust manifold will literally be sucked right through by the vents in the hood. And another thing too: Heat can be reflected. Remove the webbing and polish the runners. Or even coat them with a ceramic coating. Then they'll look good and wont absorb nearly as much heat. I'm in the process of shaving and polishing up my manifold. It's going to be a long process as I dont dedicate a lot of time each day to the project (its frickin boring 
) but once it is done I'll post some pics up. I'll leave the sales to SHADY though, thats too much for me 
Trimming it aint so bad but polishing that sucker is a PITA.
) but once it is done I'll post some pics up. I'll leave the sales to SHADY though, thats too much for me Trimming it aint so bad but polishing that sucker is a PITA.
Hope you enjoy it here. A great bunch of people here.
03-01-2006, 09:10 PM
#31
Z Extreme Guy
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: reno nv
Posts: 673
Originally Posted by jfairladyz
As great as the heat dissipation would be it's better if the heat can just bypass the intake manifold altogether by going between the runners. Energy always takes the path of least resistance so the manifold would probably maintain a lower operating temperature if heat were allowed to bypass it as opposed to leaving the metal on there to dissipate that heat. Another thing too is that as the engine compartment heats up the air directly around the manifolds is going to get too hot to efficiently dissipate the heat away from the manifold so now the webbing is a heat sink and not a means of dissipation. The hood scoops are designed to vent heat from the engine compartment. So if you open up the intake manifold by removing the webbing then the heat from the exhaust manifold will literally be sucked right through by the vents in the hood. And another thing too: Heat can be reflected. Remove the webbing and polish the runners. Or even coat them with a ceramic coating. Then they'll look good and wont absorb nearly as much heat. I'm in the process of shaving and polishing up my manifold. It's going to be a long process as I dont dedicate a lot of time each day to the project (its frickin boring ) but once it is done I'll post some pics up. I'll leave the sales to SHADY though, thats too much for me Trimming it aint so bad but polishing that sucker is a PITA.
) but once it is done I'll post some pics up. I'll leave the sales to SHADY though, thats too much for me Trimming it aint so bad but polishing that sucker is a PITA.
03-01-2006, 10:30 PM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
What are you using to do the initial grind down? ( to get rid of the texture)
It's not that its hard, it's just time consuming. I suppose if this wasn't part of whats holding me back from getting the engine back together I wouldn't be so anxious to get it done
I also need to get a flex shaft for my dremel. I cant get to certain areas cause the dremel body makes contact and the bit wont reach the metal when it does that.
It's not that its hard, it's just time consuming. I suppose if this wasn't part of whats holding me back from getting the engine back together I wouldn't be so anxious to get it done
I also need to get a flex shaft for my dremel. I cant get to certain areas cause the dremel body makes contact and the bit wont reach the metal when it does that.
03-02-2006, 09:56 PM
#33
Big Poppa
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
I Hate Polishing, Its Too Finiky For Me, Im Doing The Stainless Inserts In My Bumpers, Yikes, I Got To Sand 600,800,1000,1500, The 3 Stages Of Polish. Lets Let J Be The Polishing Salesman On This One.
03-03-2006, 08:23 AM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
Well I had my wife pick up a grinding set last night and either today or tomorrow I'll get around to really getting on this manifold. I'm really limited in my choice of tools right now so I'm going to take a little time to get mine finished. Polishing isn't so bad at first, but after a while it just sucks. And I'm not the most patient person so I'll find myself rushing and not doing as good of a job on certain areas so I'll have to go back and redo them. I also still need to get a new gasket so I can start port matching.
03-03-2006, 10:36 AM
#36
Z Extreme Guy
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: reno nv
Posts: 673
Originally Posted by jfairladyz
What are you using to do the initial grind down? ( to get rid of the texture)
It's not that its hard, it's just time consuming. I suppose if this wasn't part of whats holding me back from getting the engine back together I wouldn't be so anxious to get it done
I also need to get a flex shaft for my dremel. I cant get to certain areas cause the dremel body makes contact and the bit wont reach the metal when it does that.
It's not that its hard, it's just time consuming. I suppose if this wasn't part of whats holding me back from getting the engine back together I wouldn't be so anxious to get it done
I also need to get a flex shaft for my dremel. I cant get to certain areas cause the dremel body makes contact and the bit wont reach the metal when it does that.
Last edited by dr. buddha; 03-03-2006 at 10:43 AM.
03-03-2006, 04:11 PM
#37
Big Poppa
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
Im Doing The Stainless Bumper Inserts, That Metal Is Hard. You Really Shouldnt Polish The Inside Of Intakes It Actually Looses Power, Just Do The Exaust Stuff. Reason Being Is That It Helps The Fuel Air Mixture Mix Better, If You Go To A Flowbench Guy, Thats What He Will Tell You.
04-08-2006, 12:56 AM
#38
Big Poppa
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
hey guys i got the pieces cut out on my cars intake when i did the intake gasket last week. i had to put the heat sheild back in place because the intake seemed to be too hot to touch. i think i might put the little cooling fan back in to help with the intake temp. but i will wire it to my rads electric cooling fan so it actually does something. how hot does everyone elses intake get? can you touch it after a good hard drive?
04-08-2006, 10:18 AM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
I'd leave the heatshield in too. I haven't gotten around to removing my webbing yet. Been too busy with other parts of the car. I'll get to it when I'm ready to put the manifold back on. That fan really wont do much for you. When the car is running you've got the air from the radiator fan. When the car is in motion then you've got air coming into the engine compartment. Plus you've got the vents sucking the hot air out. Now that aux. fan is going to be sucking hot air from the engine compartment and it pushes such a low cfm that it's not likely to make much of a difference between all the other sources of air coming in. It might help with heat sink after the engine is shut down though.
04-08-2006, 04:08 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola,fla
Posts: 359
ver are ze pikchores!?
haha, Im enjoying following along with this project because Im sure one way or another our canadian friend is making Z history. I will be the first to admit that when reading a progress thread I can never seem to be satisfied with the amount of pictures, I love seeing how the work is done and every step of the project. . . not criticizing of course, just saying that Im a sucker for pictures. Oh and if anyone needs test parts, I've got a wrecked NA Z in the backyard with a nearly complete motor minus that ugly fan
haha, Im enjoying following along with this project because Im sure one way or another our canadian friend is making Z history. I will be the first to admit that when reading a progress thread I can never seem to be satisfied with the amount of pictures, I love seeing how the work is done and every step of the project. . . not criticizing of course, just saying that Im a sucker for pictures. Oh and if anyone needs test parts, I've got a wrecked NA Z in the backyard with a nearly complete motor minus that ugly fan
04-09-2006, 10:38 AM
#41
Big Poppa
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
l-dub, you in the wrong area, why you talking batteries when i mentioned a fan?? i got a great ac delco 7 year warranty battery, it is great. i agree with j, maybee i wont put the ugy duck fan on the top. i put the heat sheild back in and it helped cool the thing. sorry about no pics, i only cut square holes as big as i could for now, i didnt hog it right to the runners yet, so it aint purty, just functional.
04-09-2006, 11:04 AM
#42
NisTuner
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,800
So the runners had the webbings on all the L28's right? Would removing that webbing help much for a N/A car? I mean obviously it'd help run a little cooler, but I imagine the biggest help would be in a turbo.
04-09-2006, 12:34 PM
#43
Big Poppa
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
any time intake temps can go down even the slightest bit it will help performance. it would help more on a na due to the fact that it needs as much help as poss. getting a good cold charge of air into it.
04-09-2006, 12:40 PM
#45
NisTuner
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,800
Ok, so I had it backwards. Alright I noticed the LWW and a few people have said the N47 heads might be a bit better because they are more free flowing, but then j says that you'd do better with the P79 heads shaved down a little, then if you remove the webbing from the runners you'd see some increases right? I'll have to look into doing this.
Last edited by duowing; 04-09-2006 at 12:48 PM.
