Triple Webers?
12-09-2004, 07:33 AM
#1
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Triple Webers?
I've been wanting the look of triple webers on my ZX since I bought it and I think I finally found the solution. I was wondering if any of you guys have or know of someone who has this setup? I'd really like to get some input on the practicality and performance I can expect to get from a setup like this.
Thanks in advance.
http://www.racetep.com/ztripdcoe.html
Thanks in advance.
http://www.racetep.com/ztripdcoe.html
12-09-2004, 10:15 AM
#2
The Evil Twin
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
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Injectors away from the head like that are made for high air flow. Meaning, that intake is for high rpm power only. Just like huge sidedraft carbs.
Use super high compression, wild cam, and that intake setup. You'll only have power from 5000-8000 rpm. Very bad idle and not much torque.
that's my guess anyway...
Use super high compression, wild cam, and that intake setup. You'll only have power from 5000-8000 rpm. Very bad idle and not much torque.
that's my guess anyway...
12-09-2004, 11:19 AM
#3
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Thanks for the info. I'm still not sure if I want to rod out the straight six or swap in a small block chevy, like I originally planned. I guess I've got some more thinking to do.
12-09-2004, 07:26 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Chewievette
Thanks for the info. I'm still not sure if I want to rod out the straight six or swap in a small block chevy, like I originally planned. I guess I've got some more thinking to do.
12-10-2004, 05:06 AM
#5
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I decided last night to rod out the straight six before I do a sbc swap. I've never had a performance six cyl before and I think it'll be a good learning experience. plus, v8 seems like the easy way out. This spring when I tear down the car I'll be pulling the motor for a rebuild and I'll be doing the internals first then I can do things like heads and intake/exhaust. How well do you think this setup would work on a 3.1L?(big bore kit). I'm going to either e-mail or try calling motorsport and talking to them about my setup and seeing what they think.
12-10-2004, 07:38 AM
#6
The Evil Twin
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That is true. I don't know what the piston setup really has to do with it. The V8 has larger pistons, longer stroke, and therefore more power. Maybe the straight six has better power to cc to begin with or something. Anyway...
People who run just your regular 350 with a good carb or throttle body fuel injection are getting quarter mile times in the 13's to low 14's. It is hard for a 280ZX non-turbo to go that fast, but it can be done. Also, a turbo with low boost can easily go that fast. Only a late model V8 can really destroy the turbo six. I also think its much easier to work with turbo parts on the straight six than do all the fabrication for the V8. The V8 does have its own personality though. Torque, and the exhaust sound. Just go for what you want. I already know the L28 so I'm sticking with that.
People who run just your regular 350 with a good carb or throttle body fuel injection are getting quarter mile times in the 13's to low 14's. It is hard for a 280ZX non-turbo to go that fast, but it can be done. Also, a turbo with low boost can easily go that fast. Only a late model V8 can really destroy the turbo six. I also think its much easier to work with turbo parts on the straight six than do all the fabrication for the V8. The V8 does have its own personality though. Torque, and the exhaust sound. Just go for what you want. I already know the L28 so I'm sticking with that.
12-10-2004, 09:11 AM
#7
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Well theoretically the straight six is the most balaced motor possible. I forget exactly what it is but it has to do with the timing and the power pulses generated by the combustion. This creates a very smooth running engine and also very powerful! Ever wonder why so many performance engines are V-12's?
Eventually I want to upgrade to a turbo but I simply dont have enough cash to include that in the initial build. Through the research I've done its going to get much easier to do the sbc ZX swap in the next year or so. Jags That Run(JTR) is coming out with engine mounts, exhaust manifolds, and radiator kits. That should cut down on the fabrication needed. I like the sound of a well built, good running v8, but I want something a little more unique, especially for living in a chevy town ...across the street from a chevy plant! I think a sweet running six will be a nice change of scenery.
Eventually I want to upgrade to a turbo but I simply dont have enough cash to include that in the initial build. Through the research I've done its going to get much easier to do the sbc ZX swap in the next year or so. Jags That Run(JTR) is coming out with engine mounts, exhaust manifolds, and radiator kits. That should cut down on the fabrication needed. I like the sound of a well built, good running v8, but I want something a little more unique, especially for living in a chevy town ...across the street from a chevy plant! I think a sweet running six will be a nice change of scenery.
12-10-2004, 10:45 AM
#8
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Thought I'd chime in here. I have an L28 240 that I recently got going. It's a road racer, but I have drivin it on the street. It has tripe 44's with about 13:1 compression and a schnieder cam (.560 lift/300 dur).
Bleech Z is right for the most part, almost no low end power and is not driveable below about 3-3500 rpm, but the power band kicks in around 4k. But with that said, I am quite impressed with the performance. The first time I let it wind out, I couldn't beleive how hard it pulled!
I hear all this talk about if you put the same effort into a v-8, it would be so much faster, but the 'ole '28 is a pretty good bang for the buck.
Bleech Z is right for the most part, almost no low end power and is not driveable below about 3-3500 rpm, but the power band kicks in around 4k. But with that said, I am quite impressed with the performance. The first time I let it wind out, I couldn't beleive how hard it pulled!
I hear all this talk about if you put the same effort into a v-8, it would be so much faster, but the 'ole '28 is a pretty good bang for the buck.
12-10-2004, 12:53 PM
#9
Originally Posted by Chewievette
Well theoretically the straight six is the most balaced motor possible. I forget exactly what it is but it has to do with the timing and the power pulses generated by the combustion. This creates a very smooth running engine and also very powerful! Ever wonder why so many performance engines are V-12's?
Eventually I want to upgrade to a turbo but I simply dont have enough cash to include that in the initial build. Through the research I've done its going to get much easier to do the sbc ZX swap in the next year or so. Jags That Run(JTR) is coming out with engine mounts, exhaust manifolds, and radiator kits. That should cut down on the fabrication needed. I like the sound of a well built, good running v8, but I want something a little more unique, especially for living in a chevy town ...across the street from a chevy plant! I think a sweet running six will be a nice change of scenery.
Eventually I want to upgrade to a turbo but I simply dont have enough cash to include that in the initial build. Through the research I've done its going to get much easier to do the sbc ZX swap in the next year or so. Jags That Run(JTR) is coming out with engine mounts, exhaust manifolds, and radiator kits. That should cut down on the fabrication needed. I like the sound of a well built, good running v8, but I want something a little more unique, especially for living in a chevy town ...across the street from a chevy plant! I think a sweet running six will be a nice change of scenery.
12-10-2004, 03:35 PM
#10
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On the inital teardown the majority of my money is going into the engine. However there are a couple of areas on the car that need immediate attention, so I'll be taking care of those before I put it all back together. I'll probably also take the opprotunity to install subframe connectors, since there wont be much in the way. The only reason I'm doing any body work is so that I can be confident that the unibody can take the power.
12-10-2004, 09:26 PM
#12
The Evil Twin
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
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Also an inline six has three detonations per revolution. The timing around the circle is just right to make a smooth rotation. Also every power stroke is pushing down on the same side of the crank. The bottom end lasts longer in a straight six than a V6. Or any V engine.
I know a V8 can idle very low. My dad's chevy truck idles at about 300 rpm once it is warmed up and its super smooth and quiet. its also fuel injected though. Oh, and it redlines at 4800 rpm.
I know a V8 can idle very low. My dad's chevy truck idles at about 300 rpm once it is warmed up and its super smooth and quiet. its also fuel injected though. Oh, and it redlines at 4800 rpm.
12-10-2004, 11:19 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by Chewievette
What's your current setup? Any head work? Cam? Header? 60mm TB? 2.5" Exhaust?
If you don't have any other upgrades yet, I would use that money on these upgrades first. Without all the other stuff to compliment your triples, you'll be disappointed in the result.
Think of your engine as an air pump. It'll only pump as much as the most restrictive component.
If you keep your stock EFI and spend the money on the other upgrades, you'll be very happy with the improvment. Especially with driveability. Believe me! EFI is REALLY nice on REALLY cold mornings. Triples are a PITA to keep synchronized together. It's not fun watching the carb closest to the firewall (and the throttle linkage) opening noticeably sooner than the one WAY out there by the radiator.
BUT, if you have the money now and you don't think you're going to have it later, so you just have to strike while the iron's hot, GO FOR it! You can worry about the other stuff later...
P.S.
A good set of tires, brakes, shocks and springs will do wonders for the fun factor!
12-11-2004, 01:26 PM
#14
Originally Posted by BleachZee
Also an inline six has three detonations per revolution. The timing around the circle is just right to make a smooth rotation. Also every power stroke is pushing down on the same side of the crank. The bottom end lasts longer in a straight six than a V6. Or any V engine.
I know a V8 can idle very low. My dad's chevy truck idles at about 300 rpm once it is warmed up and its super smooth and quiet. its also fuel injected though. Oh, and it redlines at 4800 rpm.
I know a V8 can idle very low. My dad's chevy truck idles at about 300 rpm once it is warmed up and its super smooth and quiet. its also fuel injected though. Oh, and it redlines at 4800 rpm.
12-11-2004, 09:43 PM
#15
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That intake system looks mighty mean, and I'm sure there's some power to be had with it as well. But as the guys say, there's a lot of room to work with when it comes to the stock setup - that's what I'm focusing on with my Z right now. Since I can't afford a high-end turbo setup yet, I'll stick with minor NA tunes. To be honest, I'm focusing on suspension before the engine - I like a great-handling car ... power is an accessory. What it won't do in a straight line, it'll make up for in the turns!
12-11-2004, 10:38 PM
#16
what i like about the 280zx 2+2 NAs is that they have 4 seats and you can swap out the engine with a turbo which would be awesome cuz (even though a 100 or so heavier) you can fit 4 people and with it modded it would be a monster people transporter...
Last edited by assimilated420; 12-12-2004 at 11:57 AM.
12-12-2004, 06:17 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by assimilated420
what i like about the 280zx NAs is that they have 4 seats and you can swap out the engine with a turbo which would be awesome cuz (even though a 100 or so heavier) you can fit 4 people and with it modded it would be a monster people transporter...
12-13-2004, 09:59 AM
#19
The Evil Twin
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
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Originally Posted by assimilated420
300 rpm...he must have some great mods cuz i have NEVER seen a v8 run that anywhere near that low without going dead...amazing!
Even if a straight six is more blanaced, the more cylinders the lower the rpm it can idle because it has more pistons firing per revolution. I can get my little 4-banger Datsun to idle at 300rpm. Its pretty lumpy at that low of an rpm but it works because it has perfect cam and ignition timing. The straight six is smoother but still not made to idle that low.
12-14-2004, 07:20 AM
#20
Originally Posted by BleachZee
Even if a straight six is more blanaced, the more cylinders the lower the rpm it can idle because it has more pistons firing per revolution. I can get my little 4-banger Datsun to idle at 300rpm. Its pretty lumpy at that low of an rpm but it works because it has perfect cam and ignition timing. The straight six is smoother but still not made to idle that low.
12-14-2004, 08:11 AM
#21
The Evil Twin
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Location: Seattle, WA
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No, it is not tuned for performance. The 350 is all stock. Fuel injected, short duration cam for higher low rpm compression. It is tuned from the factory (in a truck) to have more power in the lower rpms. A high duration cam would not allow it to idle that low. Maybe the same year Vette engine won't idle that low.
Really now, at 17 years old how many V8s have you actually seen?
Really now, at 17 years old how many V8s have you actually seen?
12-14-2004, 08:22 PM
#22
Originally Posted by BleachZee
No, it is not tuned for performance. The 350 is all stock. Fuel injected, short duration cam for higher low rpm compression. It is tuned from the factory (in a truck) to have more power in the lower rpms. A high duration cam would not allow it to idle that low. Maybe the same year Vette engine won't idle that low.
Really now, at 17 years old how many V8s have you actually seen?
Really now, at 17 years old how many V8s have you actually seen?
Im here to learn a bit about Z's as Im kinda unknown with these, but that doesnt mean Im stupid about it. Its a fairly easy design to work on, and I dont do anything unless I KNOW what Im doing, or at least have a guide at hand. I havent worked on many others and I dont know every design but from what Ive seen the designs are all similar in some way. I am merely here to get good insight on what I should do with my car and I have a pretty good idea.
I take offend to someone rediculing me over something so frivolous as age; if 6 yr olds can play beethoven, then why not a 17 yr old work on cars? I want constructive criticism, if any, and to be corrected if I am wrong, not to be undermined... Simply put, I am here to learn to work on my car. and any future ones at that. Dont put haste on my goals.
Thank you
Last edited by assimilated420; 12-14-2004 at 10:07 PM.
12-15-2004, 08:40 AM
#24
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Very well written man! Its good to see inteligent young'uns running around here. Just because someone is 50 doesn't mean they have more experience with cars. I hate this age bias, I work part time in retail and when one of the older guys and I are working, nine times out of ten the customers will ask him the question, even though I'm more knowledgable in that area. Just because I'm 18 doesn't mean I'm ignant! (that was sarchastic btw) So now that you know I'm 18 does that mean your not going to support me in modding my car?
12-15-2004, 08:50 AM
#25
The Evil Twin
Join Date: Mar 2001
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I'm not looking down on you at all. But, based on your previous posts and knowledge of engines, I guessed that you were inexperienced. If you're still just learning why do you continue to defend your wrong theorys when you basically just admitted you dont' know what you're talking about? I just asked how many V8s you've been around since you talk like you've been working on so many different setups. Mainly I was wondering if the V8s you have seen were carbed. But you go into this whole speal about how I mentioned your age and I'm just attacking you. That line wasn't even an insult. But as it turns out you've been around them but never really tuned them. If you haven't even tuned them, how do you really know how well they idle? ...ok, I don't really care about that anymore. If you say they idle at 700 rpm, then fine. Lets just talk about L28's. I like the straight six better anyway.
