Bang For Your Buck
 

Ok...so there's a lot of information floating around this forum about good performance upgrades but I want to know what the following:

"What would your list of specific (brands/websites) bang:buck performance parts be if you were on a budget of $200/mo and what order would you do these in?"

depends on what motor your running

stainless steel braided brake/clutch lines

heres the results of adding a 3in exhaust to a 280zx turbo

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread...+turbo+exhaust

here's a list of what I would do (and have 90% of it done):

1: 2.5" straight exhaust with a straight through muffler (unless you're turbo, then go to 3")
2: Header, I know people say it doesn't give you any gains, but it makes the car sound badass which makes it feel faster lol (only for NA, again, the factory turbo manifold flows MORE than enough)
3: Cressida or 280ZX Turbo AFM swap (only works if you're NA though)
4: 240SX/KA24 Throttle Body swap along with the mouth of the intake manifold ported out.
5: Megasquirt it
6: bigger cam
7: headwork
8: high compression pistons
9: ITB's or triple Webers
10: stroker motor
11: bored out stroker motor

of course, that's only engine wise performance, I've learned that these cars are fast enough with a mostly stock motor and that you should focus on the suspension/braking portion of the car first

Stainless Steel Brake hoses should be pretty high on your list. followed by polyurethane bushings, and then new shocks/struts, and high performance springs and larger sway bars ;)

Thanks, PontiacKid. That gives me a few cheap upgrades I can do in my yard. :)

As for the rest, I should be more specific. I'm limited to about $1-200/mo but want to improve the over-all performance of my car. Everything from handling to acceleration.

How much gain is there from doing the AFM swap & which of the 2 would you suggest?
Also, what brand of headers would you use?

As far as engine work goes, I won't be able to do any rebuilding any time soon. So tearing the engine down is a no go. Is there a way to do ITB's without a custom ECU to control then? Also, when you're talking about the KA24 throttle body swap, are you talking about the part that bolts on to the stalks? Is a specific adapter plate required?

Skib, I have the stock L28

I can vouch for top end improvement on that one!

........

on the KA 60mm TB swap;


its not really "performance" upgrade, it will provide somewhat quicker throttle response.

if you run it, port your manifold out to 60mm. because even though your TB is 60mm it will still be going into a 50mm hole, defeats the purpose of putting a 60mm TB on no?

I dont recall if the butterfly hits without the spacer or not

the 1in spacer; you will need this if you want to run the stock throttle linkage and you will have to custom do the linkage on the TB itself (search hybridz for a write up)


if you want to really increase performance at the intake, gasket match the runners, the small runner diameter is the choke in the stock intake

That's pretty much what I'm doing. Here's a rough list so far...

79 280zx -205$
complete aluminum v8 -110$
forged pistons for v8 - 67$
transmission - 220$
Half shafts for yet unaquired differential 20$
turbo 130$
Headbolts 10$
alternator and starter - 40$
electric cooling fan, afm, various sensors and wiring 50$
Flywheel 50$

about 900$ so far, and been driving it for 3 yrs.

Things I didn't count, title transfer fee, license, tps switch for l28, heater core and alternator that blew, and new(used-perfect) dash speedo and guages. I figure this is maintenance cost, not modification cost.

the things that are going to open up power on the L28 N/A are head work, cam, exhaust, ported/custom intake, and when you want to get into really tearing things apart, some higher comp pistons, going 3.1 stroker, ect.


note on getting a burly cam tho: if your running efi you should be using an aftermarket ecu so you can adjust the AFR since its going to be wanting to eat up more than stock . or run carbs :023: triples would be badass


but just for some cheap stuff you can do for now. for starters, toss on a header with 2.5 in exhaust. I recommend a resonator and muffler, its loud. I had a header with 2.5in pipe and just a muffler and you couldn't talk in my car :042: second, gasket match your intake runners if you have the skill/tools. having a good tune and quality ignition parts helps too, not in hp but making it more efficient

It's to bad datsun didn't make a l28/30 block that could stand up to the stuff the Toyodors do. It'd be fun to make that kinda power without having to be seen in an ugly ass toyodor.

a what?

what motor are you trying to compare the L28 with?

many of those upgrades I wouldn't call a good bang for your buck. Its like $200 each for an additional 3-4hp each.

Save for 2-3 months. Buy a $500-600 turbo 280ZX parts car. :D
That's a good 50hp and 60 foot pounds of torque right there. Its all up hill from that point.

If you want to build a non-turbo engine, then buy an engine and build it on a stand while you drive your car. It'll take you 2-3 years with only $200 per month to build it up to 200whp.

true :042:

Iv spent about 2k on my motor with a full rebuild, FMIC, turbonetics BOV, full exhaust and some other fun bits

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm liking some of the ideas I'm getting, especially some of the stuff I didn't know was possible (like swapping the Cressida's AFM in). I'm also starting to think that doing an RB swap wouldn't really be necessary for the kind of power I'm looking to make (I'd say max 220hp).

Skibs, what did you mean by gasket matching the runners? When it comes to terminology, I'm a lightweight but I catch on fast.

The KA throttlebody & webers sound appealing to me, as I like a car that responds more than I like going fast. Is there a thread or HowTo somewhere for the Weber conversion? Is there a kit for this or is it all custom work? I don't have access to a crazy amount of tools, but could do my own light porting/drilling/etc.

Not really keen on going Turbo, I have a tendency to lean towards cars with NA engines. As far as my $200/mo goes, this limit will slowly go up as I pay more & more of my debts off.

the webbers are just triple carbs, take off your intake and all your EFI stuff and bolt on the intake and carbs.

if you pull the intake off and set an intake gasket on it you notice the runners smaller than the gasket holes, you use it as a guid to how much material to take out. just google it :023:

Thanks for the info. Found a link to the Weber kit. $1500's pretty pricey. I might just do the KA TB swap. Probably cheaper. :P
Reading up on the gasket matching now.

the TB swap is much cheaper, but your just swapping out the TB, with the webbers your ditching your EFI and swapping in a whole new intake and fuel induction

What are the benefits of the Webers over a more responsive TB?

How much power would really be gained from $1500 in carbs?

lol you cant compare the two, there totally different things



Id suggest doing some reading on how and why the parts of your motor work
and the specifics of those parts on the L28 before you start modding stuff.

well, the subject here is bang/buck, on that score, I think I win. I may have mentioned that it would be nice it the l series blocks could take the abuse the jz series do, but that's kinda a tangent...

the jz whateverthellitis toyodor.

First of all, I can compare apple trees to road apples if I want to, i'm not stuck on the l28, or anything else for that matter, we're talking bang/buck, no holds barred...

a JZ and an L arnt really comparable

same with comparing an L to an RB or a V8

what? that post wasnt even talking to you.


hes asking about bang for buck mods for his L28

He did not say that, he said bang/buck, there was no limitation to l anything.

I don't seem to be able to figure out how to post an asci file of a dyno curve of what I was willing to accept before Hoov shot his mouth off, suffice it to say peak engine hp is approx 4x what claims is his rwhp. Of course now that he's pissed me off(don't EVER call ME a liar) that's history..

the context of the original post was bang/buck for his car (and the natural implication of the motor in it) not what motor to swap.


and he dosent seem to be up/able to do a JZ swap in his Z anyway

Well, if you want to make such assumptions, fine, but that is NOT what was asked.
He very simply asked bang/buck, and I'm not making any judgements as to what he is/is not up to.
Guess it's up to him, but my response was well within the original question.

edit: I did not suggest a jz swap, if your going to swap, put in something decent... only commented that it would have been nice if datsun had made a block that could match it....

I'm keeping my mouth shut to your (ridiculous) post's, as you seem to be digging your own grave. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let a liar drag me down in with you.

ditto

I'm fairly limited in experience when it comes to modifying parts to fit, although I am getting better as I learn. Bolt-ons and tuning I can do pretty well. When it comes to fabrication, I'm a newb & don't have access to the tools necessary to do the big swaps.

As far as pulling power out of my Z, I originally wanted to RB swap it, but that's going to be pricey. From what I've seen, good power can be pulled from the L28.

I want to keep it NA and I want to get to about 220hp (Would settle for 200hp with reduced vehicle weight). I'm limited to $200/mo at the most right now for budget too. Throttle response & handling are more important to me than going fast, but I definitely want to be able to take off & break the back end loose if I want to.

I have the ultimate suggestion....

make it...............reliable..................

agreed.

you woulnt be able to get 220hp out of your N/A L with out some real work thats going to take alot more than "bolt on" experience

And that comment had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

ANYWAYS BACK ON TOPIC. I DON'T CARE WHAT A V8 DOES FOR A Z, NOR A 1JZ/2JZ, OR RB. The OP even mentioned that he doesn't necessarily like turbo cars, and would prefer an NA build up. And I'm pretty sure he doesn't want a V8 in his Z, either...

On the Cressida AFM swap, the biggest thing with that is that you're going to have to swap the circuit boards in the AFM from your car to the one in the Cressida AFM, as stated in this write-up: http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/a...ade/index.html

A KA24 Throttle body (60mm) swap is ONLY going to replace the stock Throttle body (50mm) on the stock intake manifold, whereas the triple webers are three carburetors that have one throat for each cylinder, from 40mm per cylinder to 50mm per cylinder (compared to only the one 60mm that has to feed all six cylinders ;) ) if you do decide to go with the triple Webers, you're going to have to change the fuel pump to a carburetor fuel pump, along with some pretty complex tuning with jets and stuff.

Here's a write-up on a KA24 Throttle body install: http://www.graytechsoftware.com/garage/tbs_linkage.asp

To mount the throttle body that way you're going to need a 1" adaptor, you can buy one, or make it yourself, I personally am making one out of wood for a friend of mine (it's what we had laying around at the time, and wood is easy to work with lol)

As far as a header goes, if your going to take it all apart to do a header swap, you may as well port the intake runners while you're at it, pretty much any header is good, if I had the chance to do it again, I'd buy one that was actually made for a 280ZX instead of a 280Z (BUT IT WAS IN THE JUNKYARD! :lol: ) Here's a write-up on a header install (actually just a gasket change, but instead you're taking the stock manifold out and putting a header back on in place ;) ) :https://www.zdriver.com/forums/240z-280zxt-s30-s130-tech-tips-275/how-do-your-intake-exhaust-gasket-18779/

lolz for real?

wood?


just cough up the $43 and get a nice alum one with hardware from Dave @ Arizona Z car

shipping sucks yo

That, and why pay that much for something that'll work just as well for free? (he's gonna paint it so we don't have bare wood in the engine bay though lol) and it'll work as an insulator (even though it doesn't matter on throttle bodies :P )

mine was $43 shipped


lol least get some of that hard plastic shit (blanking on the name)

edit: alum spacer running the 60mm
Attachment 21197

GOT ANY MONEY FOOL?? There's a dyno day comin up the end of the month...

Let's make it clear for you retarded, I'll bet 2k$ that I can make a 5 cyl l28 beat the crap out of your chevy for less than 200$. Come on mr smart guy...

huh? money is something i have tons of.

lol Skib, I'm not the only one to do the wood spacer, there's a guy on hybridz that did it, too. our spacer isn't that thick, but the throttle clears just the same.

And by shipping sucks is that I hate waiting for stuff to come lol

lolz Iv seen it :042: what ever works I guess

So you showin up at the dyno day in Troutdale in a couple of weeks?? Ya got a mouth like HOOV? I'll be there and more than glad to talk in person..
verbaly or otherwise.. Don't forget, you live less than 10 miles from me, you don't have the excuses he does...

wow man, you have some serious issues if you think talking crap over the internet makes you a bad ass.

lmao on second thought, if you could manage to do something to skib you have to deal with ALOT of pissed of z car people.

is it the one on the 29th? at forged?


do tell, what dose otherwise Intel?

hahaha
:wink:

and where does he get off threatening you? out of everyone on this forum.....