CWHammer

Okay bodyworkers, here's the question - I want to strip and paint several areas of my 2+2 because of surface rust. I know that the holes will be patched with metal and I'm going to grind out as much of the surface spots as possible. I have a batch of POR-15, (really there is a question) and I have read most of the posts on here about rust removal/treatmentand I am wondering, is there an etching epoxy primer? Is etching primer better then using the POR-15 or should the POR -15 be put over the etching primer? Should I get an epoxy primer to go over the etching? How much can I expect to spend on quality chemicals? How much product is necessary? I really want to learn the art of auto body/refinishing and there are so many different schools of thought on the subject. The most logical read I saw said etching primer, epoxy primer, high build primer, uerethane primer, finish. I understand that the prep work is 80% of a quality long lasting finish and I want to get it right the first few times I have to do it. (I know I won't get it primo the first time or two.) Sorry for the long post but I really, really want to get solid info before I jump headlong into this.

duowing

I thought the por-15 went on before anything. I thought you would use that as your base to cover and convert the rust. Then you'd put a primer or paint over that.

CWHammer

If the rust has been removed then the POR-15 isn't necessary, or is it? Hmmmmmmmm...

The Por-15 directions say that it works best on rust indicating that bare metal isn't so good. See the confusion?

280zx2by2

where do you get the self etching primer and POR-15?... i cant find it at auto parts stores

is it a home depo?

CWHammer

I have found spray bombs of self-etching but I don't know how good it is. For POR-15 go to their website and see if they have a local supplier. If not just order it from them. Do a search and there are a ton of suppliers and info sites that come up.


http://www.por15.com/

280zx2by2

http://www.por15.com/faq.asp

this might help you

260zturbo

you can get you some high build primer if you want. we use 2k urethane primer. we. DA 240 before your prime. it will feel up the scratches. If you didnt know primer is a basically a liquid putty. feels in the scratches or small imperfections. if you find a auto paint shop they should have some primer/hardner for around 70ish a gallon. epoxy primer is a different animal. its very expensive but works great. just like epoxy paint. it grips really well on bare metal. it can be sanded but its a little tougher then regular urethane primer. i use high build primer to but i throw some reducer in it so thin it out. when it comes out of the gun ITS thick. so thick if you put it on really fast and thick it will bubble up if you pin holes. if you have more questions i would be willing to throw some more info down. being in the collision repair business i do/read and study this crap every day. something new comes out and have to learn it >_<

280zx2by2

can i use this for any kind of body work? its alkyd marine/industrial primer



this is what it looks like sanded on some rusty metal...



when i grow up i want to work at a bodyshop... but i think i got to work at a tire shop

CWHammer

Yeah man, any help I can get is mucho appreciated. I have looked at so many posts here and on other forums that things are getting clear as mud. I really want to start out right and not have to change course midway. been there done that too many times before. With work, the house and the kids I will be pressed to get time to get things done as it is.

NismoPick

^^^ What 260zturbo said.


There's several ways to work w/ surface rust, but if the rust is all the way through, or you can break through w/ a screwdriver, you gotta replace it.

#1... Grind / sand surface rust down until it's gone.

#2... On rust pitted areas, grind away what you can, heat the rest w/ a torch.

#3... Fill low areas w/ an "All Metal" filler. This stuff rocks:



#4... Before priming bare metal, treat it w/ some metal conditioner or use a thin coat of Vari-Prime.

280zx2by2

alkyd primer?... yes, no? i have like 3 gallons of it and i dont want it to go to waste

NismoPick

When, oh when, will you learn to use google??? As long as it's sandable primer. You have to block it out before paint. Does it say anything about sanding on the can?

280zx2by2

google didnt work at a body shop....

it dosent say on the can but i have sanded some and it seems to sand well and dosent peel like a latex paint....

thanks googl... i mean pick
.................................................. .................................................. .....................
what does this mean? is the z sheetmetal galvanized steel?

OIL BASE RED OXIDE METAL PRIMER 2-13
DESCRIPTION:
Oil Base Red Oxide Metal Primer is a premium quality, rust preventative alkyd primer to insure adhesion of finish
materials. Red Oxide Metal Primer is intended particularly for interior and exterior metal surfaces such as iron, steel
and aluminum. Corrosion resistance of this product is suited to protect field machinery, farm equipment and storage
tanks, and can be topcoated with latex or oil based products. Products may be applied by brush, roller or spray.

SPECIAL CAUTIONS:
Do not use on galvanized metal. Do not topcoat with paints containing strong solvents such as xylene, toluene, etc.

SURFACE PREPARATION:
GENERAL - Surfaces must be clean. Remove oil and grease with paint thinner. Clean off dirt with a detergent
solution and rinse with clean water. Refer to "Surface Preparation Guide" for more detailed instructions.

UNFINISHED SURFACES:
IRON AND STEEL - Remove rust and mill scale by sand blasting for best results. Power tool cleaning using disc
sanders or careful hand tool cleaning with sandpaper and wire brushes will provide good adhesion if done carefully.
GALVANIZED METAL - Alkyd Metal Primers are not recommended for use on this surface. Use either galvanized
metal primer or vinyl wash primer as the first coat on galvanized metal.
ALUMINUM - Sand surface lightly with fine sandpaper.

MIXING:
Stir each container thoroughly prior to use. Apply at package viscosity.
APPLICATION:
Apply by brush, short nap rollers or spray.
One coat, applied at the recommended coverage rate, will provide adequate durability.

theramz

Listen to the guys that do it for a living. You can also get good advice from an auto paint supply. Go here too. http://forum.eastwoodco.com/

NismoPick

No, the 280zx does not have galvanized steel... hence the reason they have rust problems. And the final answer is NO, you can't use this primer for your car, as it states not to use solvent paint (which is automotive paint) over it.

Congrats for using google!

CWHammer

Now I'm getting somewhere. I have a gallon of the Metal Ready from POR-15. I don't remember the exact ingredients but an acid and Zinc Phosphate are the two. I have treated the pieces I have waiting to go into the floor behind the seat with it and it actually changed the color of the metal. According to the directions that metal should now be etched with a Zinc Phosphate. Sound right? Should I use an etching primer or POR-15 on it now or go straight to an epoxy primer? Then with the procedure in the earlier post?

Thanks to the experts.

CWHammer

How do I know that the surface rust is gone? While using the DA on the spare fender with 80 grit, I noticed it can look like it's gone but under different light I could still see a small dark circle. Is there better lighting to use? flourescent vs. incandescent ect....

280zx2by2

AHHH i HATE rust!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

look at this crap!!!!!




you probly need a mixture... isnt that why body shops paint rooms have lights up high and some lower so they can get different angles?

Bleach

Parts car!!!

CWHammer

May end up that way if I can find a sexy 2+2 to move the very clean interior to. You know, that ONE that has NO rust ANTYWHERE. I see them all over here in MI. NOT! I hate roadsalt more than rust. Damn winter!

280zx2by2

i see them all the time in ga i just dont have any money to get em....

but i am looking at getting a 81 2+2 just like mine minus the t-tops as a daily driver for my dad... he likes how easy they are to work on and i found one locally so... its in the works... i might trade my almost MINT interior into the SLICK top lol.... hey were in almost the same situation

260zturbo

have u ever painted a car 2+2????? painting in the batcave is not very fun. you find yourself missing alot of edges/corners unpainted. i just did fenders for a bike . i hung them up to paint but the light was bad and they didnt work with the way i painted kept moving. i like to spray my hvlp around 40lbs or pressure for paint. and clear i crank that bad boy up to atomize it. their is a google word you can look up. so after that i resanded them with 400 and repainted/clear on a table. id radther do it one time and do it right. No matter what you do to rust like sanding /preping it will come back. it might not come back that next day but over time that spot will rust. really the only way is to cut it out and replace. why they call it cancer. truly when you have bare metal the etching epoxy sealer is great. its better then most e-coats on cars. just remember when putting this stuff on what type of paint your going to use. if you find yourself using lacquer primer dont go out and buy some urthane paint. same thing as acrylic.

280zx2by2

you mean 2by2?????????? and thats why i said this.....

260zturbo

i dont want to argue about this because this is not what its about.


do you see lights everywhere? i painted it outside of the paint booth because its being repaired.

anway if you got to a automotive paint store. they have pamphlets on everything the sell.

280zx2by2

is an automotive paint store like a body shop? cause i dont think i have seen a automotive paint store in my town... plenty of house paint stores though


would it be strange for a person off the street to show up and want to buy stuff from your body shop?