240Z-280ZXT S30-S130 Tech Tips For 70-83 S30's & S130's

Z31 setup w/ SAFC?

 
Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 03-09-2006, 10:25 PM
  #1  
Externally Wastegated
Thread Starter
 
lifegrddude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,220
Z31 setup w/ SAFC?

Just curious if anyone is running the Z31 ecu setup on their Z and is using the Apex'i SAFCI or II. I'm planning to install an SAFC on my Z and was wondering what wires you tapped you into for the sensors that the SAFC needs. It'd be cool if you could share your fuel and maf settings too. I'll probably mirror the 240sx guys and make my fuel map from there. If no one has done this, well, I guess I'll be posting a how-to sometime next week. Let's just hope this storm passes quickly.
lifegrddude is offline  
Old 03-10-2006, 07:53 AM
  #2  
The Good Twin
 
NismoPick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wild Wild West, UTAH!
Posts: 20,639
I know this kid hooked up an AFC to his 280zt:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/330795/10
NismoPick is offline  
Old 03-10-2006, 06:12 PM
  #3  
Registered User
 
jfairladyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
I was looking at the E Manage Ultimate. You can pick one up for 5 bills or less and it will even convert the AFM to MAP! Thats impressive for a piggy back and pretty cheap for everything that it does.
jfairladyz is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 03:36 PM
  #4  
Registered User
 
KTM200-280zxt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 777
I was planning to do the same thing with the Z31 and the greddy emanage. I had already bought the Z31 setup. I had asked about the idea on Hybrid and most people didn't think it was a very good idea. I decided for the money I would just wait and go stand alone so I eneded up selling the Z31 setup.
KTM200-280zxt is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 03:48 PM
  #5  
Registered User
 
jfairladyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
MS'n'S is even less than that E-Manage. The new one can even run the Ford DIS now. So you can get rid of the distributor with it now.

Oh and the E-Manage Ultimate is a lot more advanced then the standard E-Manage was. Ultimate is still fairly limited due to it being a piggy back but it's a lot more capable then the original E-Manage is/was.

Last edited by jfairladyz; 03-11-2006 at 03:51 PM.
jfairladyz is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 09:10 PM
  #6  
Big Poppa
 
SHADY280's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
I DONT UNDERSTAND ANY OF THE COMPUTER UPGRADES, SO WOULD SOMEONE JUST BUILD ME ONE USING MY DISTRIBUTER AND MY MSD 6A BOX? THE LAST UPGRADE I NEED IS FUEL COMPUTER.
SHADY280 is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 09:32 PM
  #7  
Registered User
 
jfairladyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
Mega Squirt will do the trick. Especially with your NA setup. I dont remember exactly how much it goes for but MSnS is probably in the $350-$400 range and thats full stand alone Of course you still have to tune it and you've also got to buy the sensors and cables and what not that are needed to make it work. I'd say for less than $500 though you can have MSnS and everything needed to make it work.
jfairladyz is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 09:40 PM
  #8  
Big Poppa
 
SHADY280's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
Well The Hard Part Is Getting Everything And Making It Work, Im Not Good At That Part, Is There A Kit Or Something Or Is It Test And Guess?
SHADY280 is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 10:09 PM
  #9  
Externally Wastegated
Thread Starter
 
lifegrddude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,220
I have to agree that MSnS is the way to go if you have the time and don't have to worry about underhood inspections for emissions (lack of MAF = non CARB compliant). Living here in Cali sucks at times so that's part of the reason I'm not going with MegaSquirt. The SAFC can stay hidden outta view and I'll be able to pass the emissions because I'll have my MAF present too.

The GReddy E-Manage looks like a good computer to use too since you can adjust timing as well as fuel, whereas the SAFC only adjusts fuel. I'm still waiting on the rain to subside so I can get to work on installing the SAFC. I think I have the wiring figured out, it's only a matter of getting the fuel settings down. If I can get it to work fine with the stockers, I'll put in some larger injectors and tune those and post my settings as well in case anyone else wants to follow suit.
lifegrddude is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 10:10 PM
  #10  
Externally Wastegated
Thread Starter
 
lifegrddude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,220
Btw, there are preassembled MegaSquirt units for sale, I can't remember where I saw it, but you still have to get the necessary sensors and have either a pda or laptop handy to tune the maps realtime.
lifegrddude is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 10:32 PM
  #11  
Registered User
 
craZed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: riverveiw,fl
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by lifegrddude
Just curious if anyone is running the Z31 ecu setup on their Z and is using the Apex'i SAFCI or II. I'm planning to install an SAFC on my Z and was wondering what wires you tapped you into for the sensors that the SAFC needs. It'd be cool if you could share your fuel and maf settings too. I'll probably mirror the 240sx guys and make my fuel map from there. If no one has done this, well, I guess I'll be posting a how-to sometime next week. Let's just hope this storm passes quickly.
From what I've heard, the z31 ecu uses the maf output to
help calculate where to put the spark timing.
So when you start to fake the maf output, you inadvertently
screw with the timing as well.
craZed is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 10:52 PM
  #12  
Big Poppa
 
SHADY280's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
I Have A Laptop, Just Need The Rest.
SHADY280 is offline  
Old 03-12-2006, 11:20 AM
  #13  
Registered User
 
jfairladyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
Heres a couple places:

General info:
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
Assembled units and other parts:
http://www.rs-autosport.com/
http://www.protocar.net/

I should also point out that since the MegaSquirt is so widely used that I'm sure you could hop over to HybridZ and find someone with a similar setup to yours and get a map from them that they are using. That way you get a good place to start from with minimal tuning.
jfairladyz is offline  
Old 03-13-2006, 05:41 PM
  #14  
Externally Wastegated
Thread Starter
 
lifegrddude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,220
*This is long!!!* Get ready to fall asleep, or read this while on the crapper.

Ok, so it's not raining for once here in SD so I got a chance to install the SAFC. I got the SAFC wired up right now, but I have not started on the fuel map tweaking at all since the sun's starting to go down and if something goes wrong, I don't want to be out there freezing my butt off till help arrives. I'll tweak the maps starting tomorrow. Anyway, I'll try to make this as easy as I can for those of you who switch to the Z31 setup and want to use an SAFC.

In advance, CraZed thanks for the heads up on the timing control. I don't plan on messing with the signal much up top, only in the midrange where the ecu is noticeably rich (shoots flames or smoke on decel). If I do mess with the signal up top, it'll be to enrichen as I crank the boost pressure up so the voltage from the maf will still be at 5V and timing will stay the same.

Ok, so off the top of my head here goes my mini how-to. As far as I know, this is the first one for a Z. Just a disclaimer: Please keep in mind that I'm assuming you can do the basic splicing and wiring thing. If you can't do that, then do not attempt this install. Also, my wiring will be slightly different since I have a Crane Hi-6 ignition box hooked up.

Apex wire: Z31 corresponding wire:

-Power (Red) Pin# 35 black with white stripe

-Green (Ignition) I tapped into the (-) wire of my tach adapter for my Crane Ignition system

-Purple (knock sensor) Not used because the knock sensor of the 280zxt isn't used when you switch to the Z31. I'm sure you can adapt a sensor of another vehicle to use though.

-Gray (Throttle Position) I have a 240sx throttle body with the extra pigtail harness that comes with the 240sx TPS. WARNING: Without that pigtail you CANNOT get a throttle position reading. Splice the Apex GRAY wire into the 240sx WHITE wire. You then take the 240sx BLACK wire to a chassis ground. Take the RED to a 12V power source.

-Brown (Ground) Pin# 26 Black, make this splice about 6" or more away from the ecu connector.

-Black (ground) Pin# 26 Black, make this splice at least 1" FARTHER from the ecu connector than the previous brown wire. Here's a simple crappy diagram: main harness-------black------brown-------ecu connector--ECU

So the brown wire is closer to the ECU than the black wire is. Don't get this mixed up or you can kiss your SAFC goodbye.

-Yellow (Airflow signal output) Cut pin# 31 wire and take the wire that is CLOSER to the ecu and connect the YELLOW wire to it.

-White (Airflow signal input) Take the other part of the cut #31 wire and connect the WHITE wire to it. So it will look like this: (another crappy diagram haha)

Main harness---White Yellow--------ECU connector--ECU


Okay, so that's all the wiring part. Turn on the ignition to your Z and let the Apex SAFC load up. Go to the etc and pick that to get to the screen that says Sensor select and pick hotwire. Next, you pick the sensor # and put it at IN = 4 and OUT = 4. For the sensor output calculation select it as IN = 1 and OUT = 1.

Next you'll want to select the # of cylinders (6 in our case, hope you know that! ) That menu is under "car select." After changing the CYL to 6, scroll to the right and select the THR to show an arrow pointing diagonally to the right and up. (1 o'clock)

The next thing you'll want to do is self learn the throttle angle because otherwise by the time your foot hits about 80% of the travel, the SAFC will say 100% throttle. BTW, make sure you zero out the throttle position by adjusting the TPS position. If you do not zero out the TPS, you will never get the self learning curve to work.

To get the self learning feature to work, go to MONITOR, select channel 1 and select the THR. You will see a throttle % come up. Push the button and select Nx till you get a flat graph. Push up on the button and you'll see a timer appear that counts down from 60 seconds. Press the throttle to about 80% and release it slowly to about 20%. Do this a few times and then floor the throttle to 100%, release slowly to 0%, let it sit for about 2 seconds and then repeat a couple of times. Then press the throttle to about the 75% mark and release to 40% mark and do a couple of times. By the time the counter has finished, you should get 100% throttle at a fully depressed position and 0% when the throttle is untouched. Check this by selecting the Nx and getting the digital readout of the throttle position. If your throttle position is still incorrect, redo the self learning feature.

Turn off the ignition completely once you have completed the throttle positioning. This will save the data into your SAFC unit. Now fire up your Z and check to see if you are getting an rpm and throttle position readout. Once you verify that, turn off the engine and start adjusting your fuel maps, but tune carefully please, don't go blowing your motor by getting overzealous! Everyone's maps will be slightly different since we're not all in the same state of tune, but most will be in a ballpark area. Good luck and happy tuning! Whew....

John

Last edited by lifegrddude; 12-08-2007 at 09:52 AM.
lifegrddude is offline  
Old 03-13-2006, 07:18 PM
  #15  
Registered User
 
jfairladyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
So it worked out for you then? Let us know when you've got it all tuned up and how well it works for you. just remember: As long as you're adding fuel you'll be alright. You're not likely to do any damage running rich. Maybe foul the plugs out at worst. I just really want to know how well this will work.
jfairladyz is offline  
Old 03-13-2006, 08:40 PM
  #16  
The Good Twin
 
NismoPick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wild Wild West, UTAH!
Posts: 20,639
Originally Posted by lifegrddude
*This is long!!!* Get ready to fall asleep, or read this while on the crapper.
Man! That's about the same length as the JWT "how to install the JWT modified ecu."

Originally Posted by jfairladyz
I just really want to know how well this will work.
No kiddin! I'm thinkin of doing a Z31 ecu upgrade now!
NismoPick is offline  
Old 03-13-2006, 10:23 PM
  #17  
Externally Wastegated
Thread Starter
 
lifegrddude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,220
Jfairladyz, yep, the SAFC is working fine so far. I can rev the engine freely and drive the Z as is. So I can confirm that the SAFC will work. I don't know about the fuel maps yet, but that'll be dealt with in the afternoon assuming it doesn't rain again haha.

NismoPick, yeah it took forever to write that! I coulda finished a 6 pack during the amount of time it took for me to type all that out. I just wanted to make sure it was simple enough so that practically anyone can follow the how-to and not get screwed on the install.

I will share my settings for the fuel maps as I get more experience using this unit. Don't worry, I'm not gonna be selfish! It'll probably take me a couple days to iron out a basic setting. I'll post the setting plus all my mods at this point for comparision. Kinda sucks being alone in this though! Hopefully more people will do this mod and chime in! It'll be pioneering at it's best.
lifegrddude is offline  
Old 03-14-2006, 05:16 AM
  #18  
Registered User
 
tickwon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lorena, TX
Posts: 323
"I just wanted to make sure it was simple enough so that practically anyone can follow the how-to and not get screwed on the install."

Ha ha that's me man. Good deal on the install. Yeah, please share all the details...then someone might make it into a sticky. Thanks, John.

Chris
tickwon is offline  
Old 03-15-2006, 10:15 PM
  #19  
Externally Wastegated
Thread Starter
 
lifegrddude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,220
Okay, well I've been tinkering with this thing for a bit, but my fuel pressure regulator took a dump on me so I don't have a basic map yet. Yeah it's not fun when your fuel gauge is reading 54 psi at idle! I had to limp the Z back to my house, stalling out at every light. Anyway, don't worry I'll be back out on the road tomorrow trying things out. I put in more gas too, lost about a half a tank of fuel! I do apologize though for taking a while, so here's a peace offering, a couple of shots of the SAFC and a few of the screens you can get (though not all). Btw, my Z wasn't cranked on while I took these pics, I just wanted to show the basic screens.


Loading up phase:


Airflow meter output shown with throttle position, rpm and correction factor:


This one shows your throttle position along with the rpm on a digital graph as you go farther along the scale.


Analog pic of airflow meter output and throttle position.



Okie dokes, so yeah, hopefully by the end of tomorrow I'll have something figured out. The mods of my Z for the basic map I'll be tuning for is:
-Crane Hi-6 Ignition with lx-92 coil
-Spearco fmic
-Turbonetics t3/t04b
-'84 300zxt ecu and maf
-stock injectors
-Moroso 8mm ignition wires
-stock heat range plugs (bpr6)
-3" catback exhaust, stock downpipe
-Apex'i air filter
-boost pressure at ~9psi (0.6 BAR), will do another one for 12psi later, 14 will happen after I get my metal headgasket installed, but that's down the road

Last edited by lifegrddude; 03-15-2006 at 10:17 PM.
lifegrddude is offline  
Old 03-16-2006, 08:31 AM
  #20  
The Good Twin
 
NismoPick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wild Wild West, UTAH!
Posts: 20,639
Man... that is pretty sick! I wanna know the results!
NismoPick is offline  
Old 03-16-2006, 06:00 PM
  #21  
Externally Wastegated
Thread Starter
 
lifegrddude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,220
Well, after burning another 1/4 tank of gas and running who knows how many times up and down the same stretch of highway, I've got a basic map figured out that seems to work ok.

Ne points: 1000, 1600, 2200, 2800, 3400, 4000, 4400, 4800, 5200, 5600, 6000, 6400.

Low throttle: 15
High throttle: 55

Decel values: haven't figured that out just yet, soon to come.

For the low throttle, I only put the correction factor at -1% for Ne points 1000, 1600 and 2200. Other than that, it seemed like 0 correction was needed.

For high throttle, I put the correction at +1% for 3400/4000/4400.
I put +2% for 4800/5200 and +3% for the other three top end rpms. the lower rpm points were left at 0. So far so good on those settings. I'm gonna head off to get some food now, it's been about 6 hours since I ate!
lifegrddude is offline  
Old 03-16-2006, 07:34 PM
  #22  
The Good Twin
 
NismoPick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wild Wild West, UTAH!
Posts: 20,639
is there noticeable difference in the way it runs / feels ?
NismoPick is offline  
Old 03-20-2006, 03:06 PM
  #23  
The Good Twin
 
NismoPick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wild Wild West, UTAH!
Posts: 20,639
Hey bro,

Did you take out the MAF? And I was reading your install instructions... You said that on the setup you pick "hotwire" on the screen.... is the an option for the AFM flap style?
NismoPick is offline  
Old 03-20-2006, 04:16 PM
  #24  
Big Poppa
 
SHADY280's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Posts: 4,499
Hey Lifeguard, Setup A Harness And Computer For Me!!! Ill Pay For Time And Materils. Mines N/a Though Would This Still Work?
SHADY280 is offline  
Old 03-20-2006, 05:42 PM
  #25  
Externally Wastegated
Thread Starter
 
lifegrddude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,220
NismoPick, to answer your questions, the Z is running great. I've made a few more changes to the fuel map, but at 0.8 bar of boost, my Z "feels" stronger than it was before I started tweaking. I can't verify since I didn't dyno back to back, but there is definitely a noticeable difference to me. Could be a placebo effect, but I hope not!

To answer your second question, I am using the MAF out of a 300zx Z31. It's a hotwire setup instead of the flap style on the stock zxt/zx. There are provisions to select flap/hotwire/speed density and Karman Vortex. I personally have no experience trying to setup the SAFC on stock efi components, however, I do believe it can be done. The people who tried to install the SAFC before and failed, used hotwire settings... Don't ask me why they did. I would suggest asking the MKIII Supra and >93 MR2 guys if their airflow meters read the voltage from 5->0V like the stock zxt does. If theirs do, you can mirror their setup. I think the selection was FL-15 for a MKIII Supra.

All you'd have to do then is wire in the TPS from a 240sx and you'd be able to tune away and get rid of the notorious leaning out of the stock ecu above 5000 rpm and 10psi. Btw, try swapping out your ecu connectors with some from a Z31. You'll have to add a few new pins here and there, but trust me, that should clear up your lean running issue. I had the exact same problem and didn't believe swapping connectors would work, but it did. The connectors for the ecu are identical in shape for both n/a and turbo.

Shady280, the SAFC can be used for a naturally aspirated vehicle. My brother uses one on his Spec V with great results. (+6hp and +8 lb/ft. torque on his 4 cylinder) I'd like to help, but I have no experience with the n/a harness and I don't want to screw something up on your Z. If you have a wiring diagram, I might be able to help you out a little bit since the wiring of the SAFC is the same, just the pin#'s are different. Do you have a 240sx tps on you too? Without that, it'd be incredibly difficult to tune with the SAFC since there's no throttle signal being fed.
lifegrddude is offline  


Quick Reply: Z31 setup w/ SAFC?



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:40 AM.