RodMoyes

I've had plenty of experience. Z32TT is by far the greatest Z car ever made, It is quick, fast, agile and dead sexy. My 930S when it was stock would tear it to pieces on a regular basis. We're just talking about two totally different leagues here guys. While the Z32TT is as close to a SuperCar as Nissan ever brought to the USA, the 930S IS a SuperCar. Night and day difference. I'm sure if you dumped enough cash into a Z32TT it would keep up for the most part, or even be quicker... but overall it could not match the 930S and it certainly would suffer from a reliability stand point if you built it to that extreme. I'm still shopping for a Z32TT because I want a Z that can somewhat run with the big dogs, but I have no illusions about it ever being a better all around car than my 930S. I'd probably love the Z even more than the Porsche, but love won't make it run low 4 second 0-60 times or shred an autocross track at the same time like the 930 already does. Sorry to rain on the Z parade in a Z world but facts are facts. You need only look at my history here of defending the Z against other cars to know that I'm a hard core Z lover. When you start making comparisons to other cars, you need to make sure you are still grounded in reality. Supra? 300GT VR4?, RX-7TT? or even newer cars like An EVO or an STi or S2000... those are good cars to compare it to because they are all in the same type of category. You know right now at this very moment, there's some kid on some VW website talking about how his modded out Golf will smoke a Corvette Z06, or a Ferrari 360 or whatever... We all want to beleive that the money and hard work we put into our cars has somehow elevated them to a level that is more than just the some of it's parts. Unfortunately, that's rarely the case. The Difference between a 130K SuperCar and a 30-50K Fast mass production car is just too great to overcome in all but the rarest of situations. Can you dump 30K into a 30K car and give the 130K car a run for it's money? Yes, you can... so from a bang for the buck standpoint, the Z wins every time. But, What if you put 30K into that 130K car?... lights out... party's over.

Rod.

RodMoyes

Dang, Didn't mean to totally kill the debate. I was hoping for some input on that one.

Rod.

emo236

well, first of all, your stats are way off from what I know about 930s. My neighbor has 2 911sc's and a 944s2. The 930S (also known as the 911 slantnose) does 0-60 in 6.7 sec if it's the 3.0 liter and 4.9 if the 3.3. This is with professional drivers, and this is the best time I could find....most other sites I found said 5.5 sec for the 3.3 liter. The TT does it in 5.0 sec. Not too much of a difference stock for stock there, and stage 3 will kill that! 930's have amazing breaking capabilities according to car and driver....it did it in 165 ft!!! That's amazing! On the skidpad, it only pulls a .88g's though. The TT does it in in .88g's as well. If you ask me, a stock TT and a stock 930 is about the same in performance. Maybe your 930 feels faster than a TT since it's small, but do some research on actual facts and numbers.

RodMoyes

930S AKA 911 TURBO Slant Nose to be specific. 930=911 TURBO.

Like I said, depending on the year of the car you're talking about, a 911 Turbo is either just a really fast car, or an incredibly fast car. THE Z32TT is a fast car with the potential to be as fast (and nimble) but it takes money and mods to make it happen. My point was that from scratch, if you invest equal money into both cars, the 930 is alway's going to outperform the Z32TT. Yes, it cost a lot more to get into the Porsche but, the baseline performance figures (Again, depending on the year) are way in favor of the Porsche. My goal is to build a Z32TT that will out do my 930S, But I'm pretty sure that by the time it's done... it will have cost me more money and delayed my kids future college education a bit more than the 930S already has.

Rod.

emo236

did you read my post? Those were specs for the 911 turbo slantnose....the 3.3 liter and the 3.0(930..911 turbo). It was the same on teh skidpad and only 1/10th of a sec off for 0-60 times for the fastest year from what the TT can do. A stage 3 TT would kill a stock 930S. And if the 930S is anything like a 944 turbo, modding it is expensive! I was looking into getting a 944T(b/c my neighbor's 944S2) before getting my supra, the price to mod and maintain scared me away.

RodMoyes

Yeah, I read it... and I agree with a lot of it. If you go back to my original post though, you'll see where I mentioned reliabilty coming into play once you start modding to the extreme. 911 is actually cheaper to mod than a 944 for many reasons. 1. Aftermarket support is huge on the 911 series and almost non-existant for the 944. 2. It's actually an easier platform to work on. 944 is a mess to work on. Front engine/Rear trans/Rear wheel drive... it's a nightmare. It's also a great idea that was well ahead of it's time (Chevy finally adopted that set up for the Corvette a few years ago and it's worked out very well for making that car finally handle like it should). 3. Baseline performance is again hugely different between the 944 and 911 or 930. It's a big deal to add 50 HP to a car that's only running 200, not such a big deal to add 50 HP to a car running 350...


I never meant to slam the Z32TT... if anything, I'm defending it more than anything. It's just not in the same class. It comes really close... but you know what they say about close don't you?

You can make any car beat another car if you really want to bad enough and are willing to go the extra mile. Stock for Stock though these two cars are in different catagories. My modded 280ZX got outright man-handled by a 40 year old VW Beetle the other night from a stop light He smoked my car like nobody's business. After talking to him though, I come to find that he's running a Bernie Bergman built monster that cost more to have built than I've spent so far on my 280ZX. My point... if they were both still stock, I would have been able to go 0-100 and back to 0 before that kid even got to 60. Money changes everything.

Rod.

emo236

I'm arguing that the Z32TT is in the same class as the 930 though. The specs were almost exact! And a stg 3 TT does not suffer from reliability AT ALL. It also doesn't take a whole bunch of money...it's just exhaust, intake and a chip. Acutally, probably just a popcharger would give the Z the advantage to beat the 930 in all but breaking. Since we both know how much it costs for a slantnose, I think it's hard to argue that you're saving money by going with the 930.

RodMoyes

I think we're approaching this debate from such opposite directions that it will inevitably wind up getting sideways. Let's call it a draw...

Rod.

emo236

Fair enough. It was fun thouhg, thanks for having a good, intelligent debate where actual research and experience took place.

RodMoyes

Yeah, It's nice when you can have a debate that doesn't turn into a pissing contest. It should always be that way.

Rod.

91zxtt

I'm sorry, but I can't leave this alone......why are we comparing the Z32 TT to a Porsche that was manufactured in the late 70's?

The stats that you quoted for the 0-60 time of 6.7 seconds was from the 1976 model year; which did use the 3.0 liter. In 1978, they went to a 3.3 liter and cut the 0-60 times down to 4.9 seconds. The 930 was basically the fastest car on the planet in the 70's. 1979 was the last year of the 930's. You're arguing that the '90-'96 300zx is faster than a car that was produced before you were even born. So what.....who cares.

Here's some info on the '91 porsche turbo....looks like a stage 3 Z32 TT could hang with this car. The stage 3 Z has more power, but the braking capabilities of the 911 are incredible, so on an autocross course, this race would be close. 91 turbo had 320 bhp stock (0-60 = 5.0). The Z32 would have a bit more trouble with the '92 since the power was Porsche upped the bhp to 355 (0-60 in 4.7). Power was upped to 360 bhp in 1993.
http://www.fast-autos.net/porsche/91porscheturbo.html

Now, the 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo is a different story. The Z32 TT does not have a chance. No way, no how. 406 bhp and 0-62 in 4.5 seconds and is all wheel drive.

So, I guess the question would be again,...what year 911 did you see get spanked by a Z32TT? Maybe you should define the term 'spanked' for us.


Don't get me wrong, I love Z's, but they're just not in the same class as most 911 turbos.

emo236

actually, I did the spanking, when I say spanking I mean, I pulled an 8.4 in the 1/8th, and he pulled it in the 9's. This was a brand new one with paper plates. This was done with my old stage 3 TT at qualcomm. Charles then tried to put money down on a race with him and he refused and claimed he needed to go home and left. Since this was when I had my first TT, I'm guessing it was a 2003-04.

91zxtt

Then, again, the guy didn't know how to drive, or wasn't driving it hard. An '03-'04 Turbo sits @ 415 HP and 415 lb-ft of torque. 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. 1/4 mile in 11.9 seconds. All-wheel-drive. 3300ish lbs. That should easily equate to much better than a 9 second 1/8th mile. Sorry, but a stage III Z won't keep up. It's not even kinda in the same league.

Sure it was a turbo?

emo236

perhaps he sucked at driving, he wasn't taking it easy I can tell you that much, there's a reason why he suddenly had to go home right after the race when Charles wanted to money down on a race with him after he was giving the excuse lines. It was a turbo unless he went through a lot of measures to replicate the turbo exactly (possible...happens) and was a liar. he did have everything from the decklid, body kit, even to teh wheels and calipers.

91zxtt

What's interesting is when you look at the numbers on the GTZ that were recently posted in another thread.

Let's use some common sense here....which car will likely win in a straight line...
(0-60, 0-100, 1/8 mile or 1/4 mile....won't matter)
Let's make 1 assumption....the drivers are equal.

The '03 Porsche 911 turbo....0-60 in 3.9 and 1/4 mile in 11.9

or

The Stillen GTZ....0-60 in 4.7 and 1/4 in 12.9

or

A stage III Z32 TT (which everyone knows isn't in the same league as the Stillen GTZ) 0-60 in the 5's and 1/4 in the 13's.


You decide, but I know what car I would put my $ on.

emo236

Could have been a bad driver, it was a new car to him, so that matters. I can only tell you what happened.