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Project 240Z race under way

Old 05-21-2003, 08:31 PM
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Project 240Z race under way

Hey All,
I am finally getting around to the Zdriver project car. Well at least one of them. Kyle has a Z32 TT in his hands that they plan to do some racing in.

I am starting with a very rough 73' 240.
Randy you might recognize the car from one of your NWDE Members. It needs it all. I did replace the engine already with a N42/N42 engine/head combo bought from a guy who harvested it from a wrecked restored 280. Cost of engine
$250. The wheels currently are Diamond Racing 15 x 8 . They are steel and since I didn't want to spend the extra money on
the lighter ones these babies are heavy, but they were $320 a set shipped. Tires are 225/45/15 Hooiser RSO3 take offs from a BMW ,cost $60 a set.

Current sway bars and springs are take off from an old E Production 240.

Everything on the car will be updated as the project goes forward. I just through some stuff on it to get me some seat time.

Here is a photo of the car.


More photos are located in the Zdriver Photo Album.
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Old 05-22-2003, 08:15 PM
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Randy,
Yes, it was Joannes old car.

JeffZ,
I will run in BSP autocross locally the rest of the year. The car really needs paint before it does start rusting. Its been in primer ever since I bought it 3 years ago.

I have new NISMO brake pads , shoes and braided hoses for it right now. I am also pulling the 3:54's from my 260 to run in it. That the lowest legal gear ratio allowed in that class. I also have some Tokico front shocks that I will install until I get the coil over set up ready.

Engine plans are to stay pretty much stock for now. I need seat time and that is more important then another 50 or so HP.

Future engine plans might be a VQ35 out of a Maxima , Altima or 350Z. I have been on the phone with Nissan Motorsports and they have given me a few tricks on how to do a few things.
My friend just converted a VQ30 Maxima motor to rear wheel drive for use in his Mazda RX7 . HE is currently running a VG30 in it

I figure that would give me around 300 HP with a stock motor , and more torque. It will also litghen the front end and move the weight back in the car.

I have spent a lot of time on the phone and on the internet researching different combos for the car.

Mike
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Old 05-23-2003, 05:58 PM
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Added a picture of my current sway bar to my photo album. I am going to try and get a group deal on Saner adjustables .

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Old 05-27-2003, 12:42 PM
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As usual, if there is a group buy for performance parts (i.e. saner adjustables) I'm in.... We need a forum dedicated to group buys, or perhaps a way to keep track of them with time limits etc.

Speaking of projects and budgets, so far my (early) EP 260 understeers like a pig and I'd like to tune out a little of that. I have bump steer spacers, but I might need the thicker ones.

I'm running 325 lb/in springs all the way around with 1" front bar and 7/8" rear. I have Tokico Illuminas on all four corners (these might be getting overwhelmed by the springs) the fronts are set to 2 and the rears to 3 with no pogo-ing. They are MR2s in the front and 280s in the rear. (oh, yeah I shortened the strut tubes 1.5" front and rear, and added coil-overs)

I need a set of lighter wheels too, I can run 7" wide wheels and I'm using heavy z31s (6.5") just to get by until I can find a good deal. (Can we say group buy on revolutions or panasports? You knew this post was going to come back to group buys.)

I'm running about -1.5 degree rear and -2 degree front camber.

Also, I need a cage (Autopower group buy anyone?) because the car flexes like crazy even with the Top End Performance front brace.

Any suggestions or comments are appreciated As are group buys.

-Lukas
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Old 05-27-2003, 03:02 PM
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As usual, if there is a group buy for performance parts (i.e. saner adjustables) I'm in.... We need a forum dedicated to group buys, or perhaps a way to keep track of them with time limits etc.
I think I will add another section bellow the For Sale and Wanted section listing group buys or discounts.


I need a set of lighter wheels too, I can run 7" wide wheels and I'm using heavy z31s (6.5") just to get by until I can find a good deal. (Can we say group buy on revolutions or panasports? You knew this post was going to come back to group buys.)
There is a discussion going on on the Roadster list talking about group buys on wheels for cantilevers . Although they went from Circles at about $190 ea to Kodiaks at $300 plus each. The circles are about 12. 2 pounds for a 15 x 7 wheel.

On the Autopower roll cage package its usually the shipping costs that make people back away from that. I have been checking local welding shops that specialize in cage work .
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Old 06-23-2003, 10:52 AM
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Well, after a big thrash session this past week. I was able to get my car out to this past weekends two day autocross . I was just trying to cure a few age related issues with the car and get it back out for some seat time. I replaced the front strut
cartridges , front bushings , the steering rack , wheel bearings, brake lines , front pads, and a few other minor things. The car is turning in much better , and seems to be handling neutral. I sure wish I had
limited slip for these tight courses. I didn't take pictures of the work I did figuring I was going to have to pull the front a part again to change ball joints , and add the adjustable camber bushings.

I did win BSP both days , but my only competition was another 240 on street tires. One thing that I feel good about is I am gaining on the other cars that use to blow me away. I figure with a bit more seat time and few more changes I will be there with them , and should past them up by the end of Summer

Mike
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Old 06-23-2003, 02:03 PM
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Three things:

1) Nice to hear the Z is on the right track. I haven't had the seat time in mine that I would like, but there is an event this coming weekend that I will take the car to provided that I can get the coolant temp sensor working again (replaced the sensor already, that wasn't it). I just got done removing the mechanical fuel pump from mine (since it would blow oil all over everything at 4500+ RPM) and adding a Holly Blue... I made the entire procedure overly complicated by making up a panel with 1 master and 4 slave switches that each feed a relay that goes in the panel area where the radio belongs, all the little lights sure do look cool though I'm still sorting suspension as well.

2) On the subject of wheels, I found that TireRack has Kosei K1's (at 13-13.5lbs apiece - as far as I know) for $109 in a Z31 pattern/offset - Which would require a .25" - .50" spacer). As I'm already running Z31 (stock) 4 bolts, I'm pretty tempted, and I'm probably going to order tomorrow unless someone can convincingly talk me out of it (or buys up the rest of their limited stock as a result of this post What are you currently using for wheels/tires?

3)What prompted the steering rack replacement? Sloppiness, or was it too stiff? Mine feels like a truck (Granted I have a Grant 13" wheel and Eric/EMI's camber plates and have them set to the extra degree of caster for quicker turn in), and the high steering effort worries me... everything else in the front end is new.
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Old 06-23-2003, 02:24 PM
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I ordered the Kosei's from Tire rack once and then had to cancel it after they told me they had to come from back East. I ended up buying inexpensive Diamonds ,because I had bought a set of 225/45/15 take offs ( the older they get the greasier they feel ) . The Diamonds are super heavy , but I tried to buy used
Panasports or Rikens with no luck. One thing I like about the Diamonds are that I don't feel bad when I throw them in the back of the car to go to an event.

I was just about ready to email you on the Kodiaks , since they are getting ready to order theirs . You can't really compare the Kodiaks to the Koseis , but if you are looking for an inexpensive way to go then the Koseis aren't a bad deal. Just make sure you scuff out where your lug nuts sit. I am hearing tons of complaints of Koseis coming off or coming loose , because of the powder coating in that area.

The 240 steering rack is a bit different then the 260/280. It appears that Nissan beefed the rack up a bit , and since my 240 rack was pretty worn it was a no brainer for me. I was going to ask everyone else if they felt like the y just got back from the gym after they drove theirs. After changing out all the bushings and stuff I sure do feel everything back though the steering wheel. I am still using the factory skinny steering wheel and I have to use gloves or my hands slip on it.


One thing I do know now is seat time , seat time , seat time makes a lot more difference then money thrown at the car.
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Old 06-23-2003, 02:44 PM
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Are the Kodiaks still slated to be $1000 shipped? Because if they can hold off until Friday, I think I'm going to participate since that sort of deal isn't going to come along again very soon; even though thats probably over the cut off for what I'm willing to pay for some real race wheels.... Otherwise I'm going to go with the Koseis - for the price, I think I'll be OK for a season or so until I sort the rest of the car. Anything is better than the Z31 monsters...

Right now (granted the alignment leaves something to be desired, I'm redoing that this week as well) I fight a bit with the car in corners, because the steering effort is so high, glad I'm not the only one...

Yeah, I need seat time... I ended up winning my class last year (regionally, in an STS Honda) thanks to two years of intense seat time (and some tweaking).... I figure It'll take about the same amount of time again if not longer to make this car a winner. This year I've been to a boatload of events, but since I'm leary about driving the Z more than 50 miles or so, I usually end up in someone else's car that I've never driven before in some odd class (ya win one class and everyone thinks you can drive). Its good for fun, but not very good for getting used to driving my Z.
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Old 06-23-2003, 03:43 PM
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The 240 rack has a qucker steering ratio than the 260/280 rack so mechanical advantage is not as great, thus more effort to turn. Less movement lock to lock with the 240 rack. Because of that, I'd rather rebuild my 240 rack when it gets too sloppy. I have one of those little Grant wheels too and it gives me a work-out too. If you sit closer to the wheel, even just a little bit, you will position yourself to get better leverage than if your arms are out and nearly straight and you'll have less fatigue. If you ever wondered why NASCAR drivers have that uncool looking driving position and sit way up close to the wheel thats why.

--John

PS. I wouldn't mind some rod ends for my swaybars with the rear being adjustable.

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Old 06-23-2003, 05:27 PM
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John,
You are correct on the steering ratio of the steering box. the 240 has a 17.8 to 1 and the 260 is 18.0 to 1, however , they are both listed as 2.7 turns lock to lock.
I was thought that was because the early 240's had the short steering arm.

My plans were to get the 240 running well enough to run any upcoming events while I worked on the 260. The 260 was a one owner automatic car that has good paint and an excellent interior. I was going to tranfer the running gear from the 240 over to it along with an Eibach Pro kit and Tokico Illuminas( It does help that this site is sponsored by a Z parts biz ) and finish off the season in it . This would allow me to really work on the 240 with out missing any events Yeah Yeah it does sound kind of wacky.

Mike
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Old 06-23-2003, 08:23 PM
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All my friends make fun of me because I sit so close to the wheel. If a steering wheel is adjustable in height it usually ends up in my lap... best of both worlds really; leverage because I'm close, better view, again because I'm close, and more precise control, because its in my lap. I try not to break the 90 degree angle with my arms though, as I tend to cross up going hand over hand if I do.

I'm actaully driving an early 260 - I thought the rack on it was somewhat unique (i.e not quite a 240 rack and not quite a 280 rack), and I have no idea what the ratio is.

Speaking of automatic 260s, mine was an automatic (I swapped in a 260 4-speed), Now, I'm trying to figure out what to do with the dual pick up 3-wire distributor, if anyone has experience swapping in *anything* else, I'd love to hear about it - I have a 240 distributor with the Crane x700 conversion and a 280zx distributor in the the garage. I just need to figure out which wires to eliminate and how to do it.
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Old 06-23-2003, 08:31 PM
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I have two of the dual pick up distributors here. Let me give Kim Blough over at Idaho Z a call tomorrow and see what to cut out. One of the distributors I have has already had one of the pickups eliminated , so I can also check it. I think
the advance one for cold start is the one that goes. I am still using a points distributor , because it still works for me

Mike
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Old 06-24-2003, 08:35 AM
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I picked up an old Mallory dual point cheap, with pure mechanical advance since there is no way that I know of to get the vacuum advance off of a triple weber setup. The Mallory is a little taller and has a much larger cap and an adjustable advance curve and endpoints. The bushings in it were good, so all it needed was disassembly, a good cleaning/bead blasting and lubrication.

I had the Crane XR700 on hand from when I converted the stock distributor to cure chronic points problems when the car was my commuter car a few years ago (200 miles daily). Since Crane does not make a 6 cyl shutter to fit the Mallory, I used a dremel to modify the optical shutter so it would fit on the Mallory distributor and ground off the rivits for the points holders to remove them. Add the LED gizmo using one of brackets supplied by Crane and tune according to the Crane install instructions. Don't skip what they refer to as the phasing step. Basically, it is just a static timing step to make sure everything is lined up (rotor with plug wire, leading edge of shutter and crank at initial advance (BTDC degrees) so that everything is lined up.

The trigger works fine, but I think the Crane XR700 brain cuts out like a non-adjustable rev limiter before I get the motor anywhere near red-line (although the possibility exists that the problem is old weak valve springs too). I plan to put a o-scope on it soon to verify the Crane is the source of the high RPM cut-out problem and see if I really need a true racing unit (MSD-6AL) to cure it. As it is, this setup has been working well enough that troubleshooting the cut-out problem has been a low priority. It is definitely better than stock.

Install instructions say to use a ballast resistor with the XR700, but in my car, I have found that I get a much hotter spark without one (definitely runs better) so that is the way I have run it.
The coil does get pretty hot but I haven't had problems. Be advised that no ballast has the possible side effect of cooking the coil with too much voltage. Depending on your coil, YUMMV . I am using an aftermarket coil that doesn't seem to have internal ballast, but I don't remember what brand.

If you are using the stock tach, in the 240's there were three wire and four wire tachs installed. One requires a current loop to work (don't remember which one) and one doesn't. That means the power wire to your coil must run from the battery, then to ignition switch then to the tach, then to the coil then to ground to work, thus it is a loop. I was stumped for a few hours when I was trying to get my tach to work so you may run into it too. The other kind (without the current loop sensing) just requires a parallel connection from the + terminal on the coil to work.

Well, I hope there was some stuff in here that you didn't already know!

--John
'73 FP 240Z

Last edited by jburge01; 06-24-2003 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 06-26-2003, 08:13 PM
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Here is my bu## ugly car leaving the line.



Did I say it really needs paint
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Old 06-27-2003, 06:47 AM
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hahaha, you think that needs paint!? Let me get some pics of mine at this weekend's autocross You'll like your paintjob after you see 'em.
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Old 06-30-2003, 06:28 AM
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I hate logitech digital cameras... mine died on me after taking one picture of a MKIV Supra at the event, so no pics of 'ol rust and primer; I'll try to get on in the driveway as soon as I get this camera thing sorted.

However, my suspension changes seemed to work beautifully, the car was neutral and it was easy to induce over/understeer when required (or one spin when my FWD instincts kicked in a little too hard).

On the flip side, I'm almost done with the induction swap (i.e. rebuilding a set of '71 carbs), and none-too-soon; flattops suck. I had sputtering, cutting out, and carb-induced rev limits.

I also still need wheels and tires - I'm still not sure what my solution is going to be, but I need one soon - z31 wheels, spacers, and 2-year old DOT legal tires are less than ideal.

Now for the bragging (as such) - the car, as it sits, is (for now) BSP legal, but I'm running in EP for points, because that is where the car will end up. I would have placed second in BSP by 2 10ths, I would have placed first in FP (there's no real competition there) by about a second. I placed second in EP with my co-driver 2 10ths behind me. So, I think the car is coming together - if/when I do catch Robert Chrismas (9th at nats in EP last year) I'll be happy, he was about 2 seconds out ahead of me this event - I figure the dead carbs are worth a second

Lastly, and most importantly, the event was 50 miles away from home and the car traveled beautifully, a little shimmy in the steering wheel, and 335# springs aren't all that fun on the e-way, but temps were stable and all vital signs seemed OK.

-Lukas
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Old 07-02-2003, 06:56 AM
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This series should make the forum slow I lied about no pic apparently, there was a photographer there that caught the car in action... 66 is me 99 is my codriver. Thanks for indulging my narcissism!
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Old 07-02-2003, 06:58 AM
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more ugly car!
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Old 07-02-2003, 06:59 AM
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even more ugly car (ok, I'm done now)
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Old 07-29-2003, 11:01 PM
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if you think your paint is ugly, check my car in action, its got rust holes(i tell people its for making the car lighter).
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Old 10-03-2003, 10:40 AM
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Hey All,
A brief update on how the project is going .

First I ran three Events so far this year and won all three . I didn't have any competition in one of them.

I am making a list of winter projects and posting them as I go.

One thing that will be new is that I am going to use my 260Z tub to experiment
with set ups.

Here is a pic of the size of tires I will be running next season. They are the ones at the bottom of the 4 others.

Mike
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Old 10-06-2003, 03:46 PM
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Looks like I have good news for next season. I will be purchasing the complete
suspension from Project 240 AKA Godzillas car. He had Andy Craig from Dandos section his struts for him and is using Tokicos. This will work great for me until I break down and go the way of Advance Design shocks with the 400 # springs

Here is a link to Kyles suspension upgrade.

https://www.zdriver.com/gallery/show...at=559&thumb=1


Plus my friend has a set of three piece Weld racing wheels. These were discontinued in the 4 x 114.3 bolt pattern. They are new out of the box , and I will be using these to mount the cantilever 23 x 9 x 15"s on

BTW he wants $400 for the set .

Mike
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