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O-ringed block and metal head gasket

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O-ringed block and metal head gasket

Old 05-15-2003, 07:20 PM
  #2  
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Hey Randy,
I called Steve Christiansen over at Nissan Motorsports about the head gasket issue. He was out of the office today , so I will give him another try tomorrow. Also remember that members of this board get discounts on parts for their race cars

Mike
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Old 05-15-2003, 08:31 PM
  #4  
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Hey Randy,
Sound like its stuck on the woodruff key .
I am thinking you might have hasd to rotate it a bit to get back in the groove.

Are you still running a Nissan dampner ?
Hopefully you are using a fluid one . I understand the Chevy one can be adapted to the Nissan crank.

BTW... I am watching you work on your garage cam. >>> Randy's garage cam link live video feed .

http://www.koolkam.com/modules.php?o...er_mlc=gtzilla

If you need parts let us know and we will get ahold of what you need .

Mike
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Old 05-16-2003, 10:08 AM
  #5  
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I have the Nismo o-ring setup on my L28, and it's been educational to say the least. I've been talking with Steve Christensen extensively. The motor has not been run yet, but its been an adventure already. I got to talking with Dr. Sideways and he mentioned he's seen several motors with head gasket leaks (coolant) out the side of the block with the ARP studs. I filled up my motor while it was on the stand, and water was streaming out. Well it turns out your supposed to run the motor sans coolant initially just to warm it up and seal the gasket, per Steve at Nissan. I was pissed that there couldn't be a simple sheet of instructions sold with it to tell me this. Now I have to tear the head back off and possible get new o-rings too. I guess you can use them up to two times, but its not garanteed. I find out that even by doing this, its still not a givin that it won't leak coolant or oil when static. I guess some of the pro teams (other manufactures included) drain the coolant out between race sessions just for this reason. Talk about a pain in the but!! I'm trying to find out if you can put some type of sealer on the gasket, something like that copper spray, but no word yet.
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Old 05-16-2003, 10:52 AM
  #7  
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Preith,
You saved me a call to Steve The gaskets sold by Nissan Motorsports were HKS I believe . 1 and 2 mm thickness were offered in the catalog.

I read your question on HybridZ about the head gasket issue, and also read somewhere else about the dry run on the head gasket. Could have been in the older Nissan catalog. My feelings on coating the gaskets is that the head and block are dissimilar metals . They heat and cool and different rates , so I am not sure how that would help much, but it would be nice to find out.

Draining the block is a pain if you had to do it all the time. We did it on our dragster back in the 70's . had two petcocks on the block and let it drain out. We only ran water back then , so it just ran on the ground. Adding water weter to the engine would get costly draining all the time

Malvern Racing has a place you can ask questions about engine related problems. It would be interesting to see what they have to say as well.

I wonder if we lost Dr. Sideways from this forum again
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Old 05-16-2003, 02:59 PM
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GTzilla,

As far as I know, the only gaskets that are HKS are the metal 1 and 2mm gaskets, not the 0-ring setup. These rings aren't copper, they're a gas filled steel, or something similar to. I have not seen the copper ones for sale. There's no way you can lay a stock gasket on top of the rings, they're pretty big. I'm thinking the copper ones are smaller. Plus the gasket they sell with it works real good to keep the rings centered.

It looks like I'll have to over torque the head studs to help it seal. ARP listed the torque at 45lbs with they're moly lube, but Steve said that wasn't enough. Also,I think I'll try the dry run and if it leaks, I'll go with some type of sealer.

I mentioned the problem to Dave at Malvern, and he didn't have any suggestions...surprisingly.

P.S. Maybe someone can provide a picture of the copper rings?
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Old 05-16-2003, 09:15 PM
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Randy ,
After a one hour call to Nissan Motorsports here is the scoop I got.
The copper O rings and the gaskets are still available from Nissan. I was wrong before thinking they were HKS. Steve said that the O rings are pretty spendy.
retail is $40 per hole plus the $150 you stated on gasket cost. Remember this was retail he quoted me. He also stated that most people don't O ring blocks anymore . He said that was 80's technology and there are better ways to get the block to seal with the newer gaskets. He even listed a few for me.

Let me know if you need the gasket . I can get a price on it next week.

He also said that what Rebello said would work if the grooves weren't in that location. He gave me the measurements that they would have to be in order to make it work along with grrove size and the use of a certain diameter copper wire.

Preith,
He also explained why the gaskets leak if water is left in the block for certain amounts of time. It made total sense the way he explained it.
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Old 05-17-2003, 06:15 AM
  #11  
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For what it's worth guys, I have been running stock head gaskets for 10 years now on my 14:1 motor. The ONLY time I had a HG problem was when I used a FelPro gasket instead of a Nissan part. Granted, I only run my car in Solo so it's not wide open for 20+ minutes at a time, but then again I can go 6+ years between rebuilds. The last gasket was showing no signs damage when I took the head off. $40... you can't beat it!

Tom
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Old 05-17-2003, 09:01 AM
  #12  
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Originally posted by Spudz
Randy ,
After a one hour call to Nissan Motorsports here is the scoop I got.
He said that was 80's technology and there are better ways to get the block to seal with the newer gaskets. He even listed a few for me.

He also said that what Rebello said would work if the grooves weren't in that location. He gave me the measurements that they would have to be in order to make it work along with grrove size and the use of a certain diameter copper wire.

Preith,
He also explained why the gaskets leak if water is left in the block for certain amounts of time. It made total sense the way he explained it.
I am still here. Time is short for me right now. I have been keeping up and answering some of the questions in private emails.

Don't hold back on the names of those "new" headgaskets!

The main thing for placing the oring groove is for it to be in the fire ring of the gasket.

Who wants an engine that has to be drained every time you let it cool off? We don't have crews that we can assign such a task to. What if the water goes the other way and ends up in the cylinder? Then in the oil. There are enough ways to shoot my foot off doing all of this without making new ones.

Speaking of short time...... The Triad Z Club will be having its annual Z Car show Memorial Day weekend in Greensboro, NC. This year we will have a fun drive through the boonies on Saturday. The show on Sunday. Sunday evening we will have a charity auction benefiting The Victory Junction Camp. For more information go here:http://www.triadzclub.com

My next event will be the VIR Gold Cup Races on June 5-7. For info on that go here:http://www.virclub.com If you can come out to the track make sure and stop by the trailer. If you have not been to VIR it is a real treat. Even the track food is good.

Alan
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Old 05-17-2003, 10:54 AM
  #14  
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Here is a photo of the diagram of the NISMO " O ring " type head gasket .
Randy if this the type you are using then chances are you might be able to use a standard type gasket with regular copper wire laid in the grooves.
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Old 05-17-2003, 11:29 AM
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Randy,
What you just described on your head gasket will work according to Steve. He says the sealing ring on the standard head gasket fits on top of the copper ring.

I thought I saw Guy with a Roadster in pics from a few weeks . My friend Steve Ward is over there for his last Novice qualifying race. He was using an RX7 with a VG30E in it. Joe Klokkevold has just completed a VQ30 Maxima to rear wheel drive engine for it. I would like to see how that works out. Then maybe a VQ35 on a first generation Z car
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Old 05-17-2003, 09:29 PM
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Randy,
Steve I think was driving a silver second gen RX7 with J & B Welding on the side rear quarter panel. They also could have used another car . Never know what cars actually run over at Joes shop.

Thats great news to hear about Guy. Are you going back out tomorrow ?? If so say Hi to Guy for me , and if you see that RX7 guys check them out. Joe is a huge Datsun fan. He even has a 212 in his shop.

Also if you see any other Z racers there let them know about the web site and the racing boards.

Thanks,
Mike
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Old 05-22-2003, 06:47 AM
  #19  
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This discussion has really shed some light on this setup, and I think I may have made a bad decision in going with it, that is the "fire ring" setup which GTZila reffered to them as. Since I haven't run the motor yet, I feel I should at least try them out, or alter something a bit. I was thinking why cant a stock head gasket be used by trimming out the original fire ring that's in the gasket to make room for the new ones? I would think this would take care of any oil/water sealing problems. This would cetainly cut the price down a bit too. If I remember correcly, the stock gasket was of a softer material which could be cut fairly easily. Does anybody know the crushed thickness of this? Any other thoughts?
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Old 01-15-2004, 10:01 AM
  #22  
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hi guys. I havent got the o rings on the block surface but am running a 3.1 with a HKS 3 layer steel gasket. I have reused it on 2 engine builds by striping the coating from it and re applying a gasket shalack which is like a rubber coating that you brush on. The engine is now apart for the 3rd time due to distributor gear failure and the head gasket is showing no signs of leakage. I am running close to 12.1 comp and although usualy only run the car at hillclimbs I did have 40 minutes running time at Zanvort circuit in 2000 without any trouble. It is a pain cleaning the old gasket but for $150 for a new one it seemed worth it hope this helps ben
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