2 ?s for DrSideways
11-10-2003, 10:23 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sacramento, Ca.
Posts: 165
2 ?s for DrSideways
Hi Alan,
My project continues to move ahead at Safety Car speed, (money) but I have enough Rubles to buy my Panasports now.
I have with your help worked out a suspension that would increase my track width with 10 inch wheels that would fill my flares and still keep my offset at 1/2 inch. Here's the rub. Two folks are using 12 inch wide wheels with 1&1/2 inch offset and claim great handling. Bill Coffey in Florida uses 16x12 wheels with 11.5x23.5x16 slicks. He says he gets twice the tire life with this set up than when he was using 16x10 wheels and the size tires you use! I would have thought the opposite with the scrub introduced from offset. Well 16x12 wheels would save me much work in suspension and I would have four identical wheels. (I would have to offset my back 16x10 wheels 2 inches outward to match the planned wider front suspension.) I would like to hear your thoughts on this. Also what kind of spring rates can you use with 8610 Koni's? Thanks, Steve
My project continues to move ahead at Safety Car speed, (money) but I have enough Rubles to buy my Panasports now.
I have with your help worked out a suspension that would increase my track width with 10 inch wheels that would fill my flares and still keep my offset at 1/2 inch. Here's the rub. Two folks are using 12 inch wide wheels with 1&1/2 inch offset and claim great handling. Bill Coffey in Florida uses 16x12 wheels with 11.5x23.5x16 slicks. He says he gets twice the tire life with this set up than when he was using 16x10 wheels and the size tires you use! I would have thought the opposite with the scrub introduced from offset. Well 16x12 wheels would save me much work in suspension and I would have four identical wheels. (I would have to offset my back 16x10 wheels 2 inches outward to match the planned wider front suspension.) I would like to hear your thoughts on this. Also what kind of spring rates can you use with 8610 Koni's? Thanks, Steve
11-10-2003, 07:45 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 48
Steve,
Glad things are coming along. Right now we are running 400lbs in the front and 350lbs in the rear. As for the wheel size .... running the 12" setup would do. More grip is alway nice. As long as you can get/keep them hot. Getting a flare to fit may be an issue too. In Solo II that does not matter as much. The tires for the 12" need a large flare to keep the car height down.
I picked the 10" setup as that was the rule at that point with a lighter weight. Hell it was so long ago now it may have been the limit. I would have to look in an old rule book for sure.
One last thing to keep in mind..... making tires last real long may not be best. Tires are kind of like bread.....best right out of the oven. After so many heat cycles and sun exposure they get hard and last even longer. So keep up with temps, tread depth, and durometer readings. Write this info on your handy tire sheet form and keep up with it. This will help you on camber and pressure adjustments. If you can, take your durometer with you when you pick out tires.
Hope this helps,
Alan
Glad things are coming along. Right now we are running 400lbs in the front and 350lbs in the rear. As for the wheel size .... running the 12" setup would do. More grip is alway nice. As long as you can get/keep them hot. Getting a flare to fit may be an issue too. In Solo II that does not matter as much. The tires for the 12" need a large flare to keep the car height down.
I picked the 10" setup as that was the rule at that point with a lighter weight. Hell it was so long ago now it may have been the limit. I would have to look in an old rule book for sure.
One last thing to keep in mind..... making tires last real long may not be best. Tires are kind of like bread.....best right out of the oven. After so many heat cycles and sun exposure they get hard and last even longer. So keep up with temps, tread depth, and durometer readings. Write this info on your handy tire sheet form and keep up with it. This will help you on camber and pressure adjustments. If you can, take your durometer with you when you pick out tires.
Hope this helps,
Alan
11-11-2003, 06:27 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sacramento, Ca.
Posts: 165
That helps much thanks. Did you have to re-valve? your Koni's to work with 400lb. springs or did they work right out of the box? I notice you use the "east coast" setup of stronger springs on the front.
12 inch wheels work great with these flares I have. They are what Dutko had on his tube frame car with a very wide track allowed in GT2 and IMSA GTU. Here is a picture of Ted Fisher's car in Arizona with 18x12 wheels and very expensive radial slicks. Also a pic of Bill Coffey's car with the tires I would be using.
12 inch wheels work great with these flares I have. They are what Dutko had on his tube frame car with a very wide track allowed in GT2 and IMSA GTU. Here is a picture of Ted Fisher's car in Arizona with 18x12 wheels and very expensive radial slicks. Also a pic of Bill Coffey's car with the tires I would be using.
Last edited by zlalomz; 11-11-2003 at 06:40 PM.
11-11-2003, 06:42 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 48
I am fortunate to be able to run on a very smooth track @ VIR. The East Coast tracks tend to have longer straights and "swoopier" turns.
My shocks could probably stand a revalve. Having the smooth track allows me to get away with that. I hope to be able to update to the AD units for double adjustability. We will have to see how the winter market treats me.
The smaller bar setup seems to be a bit more curb friendly too.
The car in the photo sure is sharp. I am still holding out for an original IMSA setup. That one looks to be pretty good areo wise though. Dave's car has been for sale at a VERY reasonable price. I hear he is moving to Ca..
Speaking of track width you might want to shoot me an email......
Alan
My shocks could probably stand a revalve. Having the smooth track allows me to get away with that. I hope to be able to update to the AD units for double adjustability. We will have to see how the winter market treats me.
The smaller bar setup seems to be a bit more curb friendly too.
The car in the photo sure is sharp. I am still holding out for an original IMSA setup. That one looks to be pretty good areo wise though. Dave's car has been for sale at a VERY reasonable price. I hear he is moving to Ca..
Speaking of track width you might want to shoot me an email......
Alan
11-12-2003, 08:35 AM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rickreall, OR
Posts: 116
I run my car at autox and hillclimbs. I'm currently using AD shocks and with 450 fronts and 400 rears for springs. The front bar is 3/4 and the rear bar is 3/8.
This winter I'm looking at going to stiffer 600 front and 500 to 550 rear springs with only a front bar that is smaller. I'm also in the middle of a double balljoint front suspension to try and reduce scrub.
Wheels are 13x10 all round with formula atlantic rubber (hoosier R25A). Odd combo but it seems to work well. I tried some 16x10 with goodyears and the car was slower.
Weight distribution is 48.5 front and 51.5 rear with me in the car. I have a slight bias to the driver's side that I'm trying to balance out.
Hope this helps,
Cary
This winter I'm looking at going to stiffer 600 front and 500 to 550 rear springs with only a front bar that is smaller. I'm also in the middle of a double balljoint front suspension to try and reduce scrub.
Wheels are 13x10 all round with formula atlantic rubber (hoosier R25A). Odd combo but it seems to work well. I tried some 16x10 with goodyears and the car was slower.
Weight distribution is 48.5 front and 51.5 rear with me in the car. I have a slight bias to the driver's side that I'm trying to balance out.
Hope this helps,
Cary
11-12-2003, 10:38 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sacramento, Ca.
Posts: 165
Hi Cary, no this doesn't help. 
You are the rebel who has the talent and a place to test your great radical ideas. I am more a poser trying to look good first and fast second. When I get more power, skill and money and you have done all the R&D then I will follow.
With formula Atlantic tires designed for a much lighter car I am surprised they don't over heat.
Could you post some pics of your hillclimb car and suspension? It sounds as radical as your EMod car! Steve
You are the rebel who has the talent and a place to test your great radical ideas. I am more a poser trying to look good first and fast second. When I get more power, skill and money and you have done all the R&D then I will follow. With formula Atlantic tires designed for a much lighter car I am surprised they don't over heat.
Could you post some pics of your hillclimb car and suspension? It sounds as radical as your EMod car! Steve
11-12-2003, 01:06 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rickreall, OR
Posts: 116
Hi Steve,
You over rate me. I'm just a hack that doesn't know when to leave well enough alone and has no fear of cutting things apart and welding bits together.
The double balljoint suspension is really my wife's fault. She bought me susprog3D for my birthday and I've been reading the extensive help files. I had heard that this type of suspension works well for struts and I've seen a few late model bimmers that work well but hadn't seen any info on how to figure this stuff out. Well this program can do that for you, sort of.
So at this point it's really vaporware. The first step is to actually map the car in the program that I hope to do the end of this month. I thought it might be something others were interested in here. My car is more or less stock running very low with all the joints being spherical bearings.
From a power standpoint my car puts around 195 HP to the rear tires. It's not stellar but not a slouch either. I'll post some pictures to my web site hopefully the end of this month. The car is a roach so to set expectations. It was a wrecked parts car for the tube frame car that I made work. And now I'm sort of using it to sort out ideas for the tube car.
I'm not a hero driver so please don't think that makes the car go. It's just proves that even our 30 year old cars can be made to work very well if your know where to tickle them. My goal was to be able to go at least as fast as our local nationally ranked super stock driver. I'm esctatic that I can beat him by a fair margin.
Cary
You over rate me. I'm just a hack that doesn't know when to leave well enough alone and has no fear of cutting things apart and welding bits together.
The double balljoint suspension is really my wife's fault. She bought me susprog3D for my birthday and I've been reading the extensive help files. I had heard that this type of suspension works well for struts and I've seen a few late model bimmers that work well but hadn't seen any info on how to figure this stuff out. Well this program can do that for you, sort of.
So at this point it's really vaporware. The first step is to actually map the car in the program that I hope to do the end of this month. I thought it might be something others were interested in here. My car is more or less stock running very low with all the joints being spherical bearings.
From a power standpoint my car puts around 195 HP to the rear tires. It's not stellar but not a slouch either. I'll post some pictures to my web site hopefully the end of this month. The car is a roach so to set expectations. It was a wrecked parts car for the tube frame car that I made work. And now I'm sort of using it to sort out ideas for the tube car.
I'm not a hero driver so please don't think that makes the car go. It's just proves that even our 30 year old cars can be made to work very well if your know where to tickle them. My goal was to be able to go at least as fast as our local nationally ranked super stock driver. I'm esctatic that I can beat him by a fair margin.
Cary
11-12-2003, 01:48 PM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Waukesha, WI
Posts: 236
Just thought I'd chime in, Dave Dutko had his car on zcar.com listed at 25K, which I think is great. Wish I could afford it. I saw the car once at Elkhart and it is very nice! The only thing I didn't care for was the exhaust which was routed over the top of the tranny.
