My friend started a new site... giving it exposure
03-20-2009, 12:49 PM
#26
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i believe form w/o function is refered to as Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhancements....
03-20-2009, 01:02 PM
#27
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even though this thread is now off topic, and what im about to add is not helping, i feel its somewhat necesary.
rota's are cast and not forged, however through much research, not using rota sites but forums and the distributors of many wheels including rota's that use those forums, there seems to be only about 5 cases of rota's breaking, all were in the first generation rim design where there was an excessive amount of material removed to save weight, i haven't came accross another post about a broken rota later than 2003-2004. all the wheels were broken at track days except one that hit a 4by4 or 2by2 doing 80. but the dealers all agree on rota having the exact same testing standards as volk and SSR etc. and the only real problem i found doing this research was a company that no longer carries konig because of one rims design flaw and konig saying that that rim isn't meant to withstand track conditions and refused to offer any refund to the customer, that guy then posted about 10 other cases with pictures of the exact same konig rim failing in the exact same place. also, on these forums the rota company themselves posted an apology and to fully replace any damaged rims, and to one guy a slight nominal shrinkage that occurred during casting (not technically a defect) just to keep him happy. so, in the early years i seems on specific rim from rota had some problems. not a problem now. also, on distributor posted a picture of his bent volk and a HRE wheel that he broke the hub through, neither replaced by the manufacturer and both done at track days then he posted he has yet to do this with a rota wheel. also, he DD's a 600+whp car on them no problems and theres a few fully legit (professional) tarmac racing cars that use rota. so bottom line, they are a kick *** rim now. problems back in the day, but their customer service is amazing and will fully replace any damaged rim, so you can't really go wrong there i guess.
rota's are cast and not forged, however through much research, not using rota sites but forums and the distributors of many wheels including rota's that use those forums, there seems to be only about 5 cases of rota's breaking, all were in the first generation rim design where there was an excessive amount of material removed to save weight, i haven't came accross another post about a broken rota later than 2003-2004. all the wheels were broken at track days except one that hit a 4by4 or 2by2 doing 80. but the dealers all agree on rota having the exact same testing standards as volk and SSR etc. and the only real problem i found doing this research was a company that no longer carries konig because of one rims design flaw and konig saying that that rim isn't meant to withstand track conditions and refused to offer any refund to the customer, that guy then posted about 10 other cases with pictures of the exact same konig rim failing in the exact same place. also, on these forums the rota company themselves posted an apology and to fully replace any damaged rims, and to one guy a slight nominal shrinkage that occurred during casting (not technically a defect) just to keep him happy. so, in the early years i seems on specific rim from rota had some problems. not a problem now. also, on distributor posted a picture of his bent volk and a HRE wheel that he broke the hub through, neither replaced by the manufacturer and both done at track days then he posted he has yet to do this with a rota wheel. also, he DD's a 600+whp car on them no problems and theres a few fully legit (professional) tarmac racing cars that use rota. so bottom line, they are a kick *** rim now. problems back in the day, but their customer service is amazing and will fully replace any damaged rim, so you can't really go wrong there i guess.
03-20-2009, 07:19 PM
#31
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No offense, Eric, but to say that there are only 5 cases of Rota wheels breaking and that you came across every instance of broken Rotas by searching the internet is kinda ridiculous... but that doesn't even detract from the fact that Rota shamelessly copies high-end wheels and manufactures cast versions of them. AMS comes to mind with their knock-offs of Z32 performance parts designed by other manufacturers.
I also never said a forged wheel couldn't break, just that cast wheels aren't as strong... that can't be denied. If it's between two wheels, one cast and one forged, I'd spend the extra money for the forged ones. Leave the knock-offs to the ricers.
I also never said a forged wheel couldn't break, just that cast wheels aren't as strong... that can't be denied. If it's between two wheels, one cast and one forged, I'd spend the extra money for the forged ones. Leave the knock-offs to the ricers.
03-20-2009, 07:39 PM
#32
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sorry, i shouldn't have put it into terms that those are the only cases! they are however the only ones i came across in a few hours of searching. surprisingly most of them on the subaru forums. one on a mazda forum. and one on a canadian forum so some of it was in french haha. however i the latest ones i came across were several years ago, so i believe with the problems they made improvements. and they do steal some/many designs, but, thats kinda typical in the automotive industry, and especially wheels, how many designs can your really come up with that are both stylish, sturdy, and light weight.
also, when did AMS sell Z32 parts? they for the most part do amazing work now, have some amazing records, smart people and so on, they do custom work, and obviously re-distribute stuff, so far they don't have any R35 stuff of their own for sale and are mostly just redistributing exhaust parts from amuse. but this interests me... when and what did AMS do this stuff with the Z32?
also, when did AMS sell Z32 parts? they for the most part do amazing work now, have some amazing records, smart people and so on, they do custom work, and obviously re-distribute stuff, so far they don't have any R35 stuff of their own for sale and are mostly just redistributing exhaust parts from amuse. but this interests me... when and what did AMS do this stuff with the Z32?
03-20-2009, 10:35 PM
#33
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The most recent and blatant example is the "AMS" manifolds which are essentially Mike Smith (MSP) manifolds, just sold for less because they're manufactured in China. There's active protesting on TT.NET against purchasing any AMS products because of this type of behavior. Of course, the problem is that it's hard to prove since (as has been said in this thread, though erroneous) people think "there are only so many ways to make a given product." Searching TT.NET will yield many responses of this sort, I'm sure:
"I think AMS should be ashamed of themselves for what they have done."
http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg...&forum=general
"I think AMS should be ashamed of themselves for what they have done."
http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg...&forum=general
Last edited by ZLover4Life; 03-20-2009 at 10:39 PM.
03-21-2009, 08:14 AM
#34
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ic.... and is this the same AMS im thinking of? the on here in west chicago? known as the best DSM engine builders? with the quikest and fastest evo8 in the world? and i think fastest KA24DET in the world?
also on another side note, after a long night of sleep i also remember rota posting on one of the suby forum's where people were starting to get a little bashy on them that out of the 25,000 rims they sold that year in the US i can't remember the exact number of complaints they got back but i think it was between 1 and 25..... i'll see if i can pull that up again. though i don't want to say hey stealing ideas and designs is cool, it always happens, and if it were a true performance part and not just a wheel i'd have a problem, but everyone seems to copy everyone else in the world of wheels, you can even look at designs between high end companies and you will see alot of similar designs if not the same. that stuff happens. ANYWAYS!!!!!
your buddy doesnt seem to hate them to much
follow the link : http://fakewheels.com/2009/02/262/
or am i just simply missing out on his sarcasm?
also on another side note, after a long night of sleep i also remember rota posting on one of the suby forum's where people were starting to get a little bashy on them that out of the 25,000 rims they sold that year in the US i can't remember the exact number of complaints they got back but i think it was between 1 and 25..... i'll see if i can pull that up again. though i don't want to say hey stealing ideas and designs is cool, it always happens, and if it were a true performance part and not just a wheel i'd have a problem, but everyone seems to copy everyone else in the world of wheels, you can even look at designs between high end companies and you will see alot of similar designs if not the same. that stuff happens. ANYWAYS!!!!!
your buddy doesnt seem to hate them to much
follow the link : http://fakewheels.com/2009/02/262/
or am i just simply missing out on his sarcasm?
03-21-2009, 10:37 AM
#35
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No, not the AMS that builds DSM's, the AMS in Canada (www.AMSMotorsports.com). I figured we were mixing those up, but I didn't think anyone would think of the DSM tuner when I mentioned Z32 parts.
I already said something to the owner of the site about his hypocrisy with some of the descriptions... his response was "heh... yeah, made a couple of twists here and there."
I already said something to the owner of the site about his hypocrisy with some of the descriptions... his response was "heh... yeah, made a couple of twists here and there."
03-21-2009, 10:39 AM
#36
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haha, couple twists. i didn't know there was an AMS canada, and yeah i figured it wasn't either but they have done some work with 240sx's and now the R35 so i thought maybe in the past before i cared they did Z32 stuff, so i figured I'd ask.... shhh.... we will just let that one slide for me this time.
03-21-2009, 11:54 AM
#37
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No need to be embarrassed to ask to let this slide - I was going to differentiate between the two because I remembered there was another AMS, but I thought maybe I was mistaken because a quick google search for "AMS" didn't show it... then when you mentioned it, I remembered that I had actually never seen their website but had seen the sign as I drove past on 294 and also seen videos of their cars on youtube.
03-21-2009, 01:58 PM
#39
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I don't need that site to show me how expensive GT-R **** is...
http://www.conceptzperformance.com/C...07.246.188.101
LO****INGL
http://www.conceptzperformance.com/C...07.246.188.101
LO****INGL
03-21-2009, 06:41 PM
#40
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well i personally will never buy cast wheels i will always get forged. the white car had rotas and he was at the track when the wheel broke.
even though most cast wheels only break at the track. what is the point of having a fun fast sporty car if you cant do anything with it in fear that your wheels might break?
my buddy also had cast rota wheels with the double thin spokes on his bmw e30 and bent every spoke at the track the wheels almost broke i will try to find the picture when i get home.
even though most cast wheels only break at the track. what is the point of having a fun fast sporty car if you cant do anything with it in fear that your wheels might break?
my buddy also had cast rota wheels with the double thin spokes on his bmw e30 and bent every spoke at the track the wheels almost broke i will try to find the picture when i get home.
03-21-2009, 07:15 PM
#41
Haterade by da gallon!
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I don't need that site to show me how expensive GT-R **** is...
http://www.conceptzperformance.com/C...07.246.188.101
LO****INGL
http://www.conceptzperformance.com/C...07.246.188.101
LO****INGL
Originally Posted by Nismo *****
Sold as 1 Quart, 10 are required for complete refill.
Last edited by 280zx2by2; 03-21-2009 at 07:18 PM.
03-22-2009, 09:10 PM
#43
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i had a set of rotas on my protege for about 3 years and i bought them used from a kid who had them for 2years already and never once did anything like that happen in fact the only reason i sold them was becasue i bought a five lug car and they were four lug. but seriously most of the time its the opposit the knock off wheels are heavier becasue instead of being made from forged aluminum there made from steel iron ect. so in most cases they wont bend or crack as easily as the real name brands would.
03-23-2009, 11:14 AM
#44
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http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1510
When forged and heat treated, the light (SG=2.7) and common aluminium alloys exhibit some mechanical properties comparable with many grades of steel. (SG=7.8). The strength to weight ratio is therefore far superior. For example, the alloy 2014-T6 has a typical UTS of 485MPa, exceeding that of many grades of steel, and all commonly used Al and Mg casting alloys. Unlike some casting processes, forging is always porosity free thus allowing relatively straight forward heat treatment processes that significantly improve selected mechanical characteristics. The lower cost 6061 Al attains typical values of 310MPa, which is also superior to, for example, A356 (or 601 type) Al casting alloy whether that alloy is semi-solid cast, squeeze cast or gravity cast. Further fabrication by welding is also available with 6061 aluminium, opening the opportunities for many other applications.
