emo236

How many guys on here are Christians? How many want to be? I'd just like to have a discussion about Jesus like we did a while ago if any of you remember. God's done amazing things in my life, and I want to share them all with you guys. This is for guys to share what God has done for them, what you believe in, or why you don't believe, etc. Please keep bashing out of this thread and let's have an encouraging/thought provoking/intelligent conversation.

WildmaN

Right on man, that's cool. I have been a Christian since I accepted Jesus at 5 years old. I got baptized at 17. I still hold to my beliefs, and I know the TRUTH. Like I said, if He didn't come down to this earth, and die for us. And also rise again from the dead. It would be pointless to go on living, because our souls would be lost. And after we die, there is nothing to look forward to. What a uneasy feeling, if you ask me.

tnkrstoyco

A letter from Jesus

As you well know, we are getting closer to my birthday. Every year there is a celebration in my honor and I think that this year the celebration will be repeated.

During this time there are many people shopping for gifts, there are many radio announcements, TV commercials, and in every part of the world everyone is talking that my birthday is getting closer and closer.

It is really very nice to know, that at least once a year, some people think of me.

As you know, the celebration of my birthday began many years ago.

At first people seemed to understand and be thankful of all that I did for them, but in these times, no one seems to know the reason for the celebration.

Family and friends get together and have a lot of fun, but they don't know the meaning of the celebration. I remember that last year there was a great feast in my honor. The dinner table was full of delicious foods, pastries, fruits, assorted nuts and chocolates. The decorations were exquisite and there were many, many beautifully wrapped gifts.

But, do you want to know something? I wasn't invited.

I was the guest of honor and they didn't remember to send me an invitation.

The party was for me, but when that great day came, I was left outside. They closed the door in my face ... and I wanted to be with them and share their table.

In truth, that didn't surprise me because in the last few years all close their doors to me. Since I wasn't invited, I decided to enter the party without making any noise. I went in and stood in a corner.

They were all drinking; there were some who were drunk and telling jokes and laughing at everything. They were having a grand time.

To top it all, this big fat man all dressed in red wearing a long white beard entered the room yelling Ho-Ho-Ho! He seemed drunk. He sat on the sofa and all the children ran to him, saying: "Santa Claus, Santa Claus" as if the party were in his honor!

At midnight all the people began to hug each other; I extended my arms waiting for someone to hug me and do you know, no one hugged me.

Suddenly they all began to share gifts. They opened them one by one with great expectation. When all had been opened, I looked to see if, maybe, there was one for me. What would you feel if on your birthday everybody shared gifts and you did not get one?

I then understood that I was unwanted at that party and quietly left.

Every year it gets worse. People only remember the gifts, the parties, to eat and drink, and nobody remembers me. I would like this Christmas that you allow me to enter into your life.

I would like that you recognize the fact that almost two thousand years ago I came to this world to give my life for you, on the cross, to save you.

Today, I only want that you believe this with all your heart.

I want to share something with you. As many didn't invite me to their party, I will have my own celebration, a grandiose party that no one has ever imagined, a spectacular party. I'm still making the final arrangements.

Today I am sending out many invitations and there is an invitation for you. I want to know if you wish to attend and I will make a reservation for you and write your name with golden letters in my great guest book.

Only those on the guest list will be invited to the party.

Those who don't answer the invite, will be left outside. Be prepared, because when all is ready, you will be part of my great party.

See you soon. I love you!
Jesus

Share this message with your loved ones, before Christmas.

emo236

that's awesome steve. You know, I wish we still had minds like children. They're like sponges and anyone who has kids or has been around a child ot watch them grow up can attest to this. A pastor at a Thanksgiving Day conference shared about his little daughter who was so intrigued with everything around her that he couldn't get away with anything. If he squashed a bug and needed to throw it away, she wanted to see it first, he could never get away with flipping the channels and skipping the discovery channel. Every time she saw something, she cwould exclaim, "WOW! NEAT!" Why don't we do that anymore. I mean, when's the last time we stood in wonderment over a human eye, how about a bug? These things are SO much more intricate than a car ever will be! Yet, we're so amazed with things that God's granted us to create and not things he's created himself. Sure, some of us can create a 600rwhp Z, but how many of us can create an ocean? "WOW! NEAT!" God is amazing. So the question is, have you noticed lately? you're probalby asking, "noticed what?" answer: anything, everything. Have you noticed the way wind blows through trees? have you noticed how your wife sings (or whatever she does) or how your kids play together? Have you noticed the sunrise, the sunset? How about how crisp clean water tastes? How a steak tastes? Heck, how a kernel of corn tastes? So much. Have you noticed? Here's a passage:
Psalms 8
"1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
"WOW! NEAT!"
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
"WOW, NEAT!"
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
"WOW! NEAT!"
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
"WOW! NEAT!"
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
"WOW! NEAT!"
7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
"WOW! NEAT!"
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
"WOW! NEAT!"
9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!"

theramz

When I was 8, before they had Asthma medicine, I turned blue and was very near death. My mother prayed to Jesus and I havn't had it since.
When I nearly drove into a busy intersection with complete brake failure, I felt a surge of energy throuh my arms that warned me of the danger ahead. I stepped on the brakes and nothing happened. I pulled the emergency, nothing. I was still doing 25 when I pulled the old Chevy into reverse locking only the right rear wheel. I turned right in the intersection and was nearly hit by a cement truck!
I was doing great in my life without God or Jesus when alcohol and drug addiction drove me to the point of losing everthing including my life. I prayed to Jesus to save me. Now sober for 23 years.
Yesterday a truck skided on black ice crossing over the divider and hitting my truck in the side spiining me into the curb, spinning the other way into the curb again. My truck is trash but I walked away.
Thank you Jesus for protecting me and my family everyday. When we are with you we are safe.
See you at the party!

emo236

that's an amazing story about God's grace. Does anyone have any stories that might bless anyone?

Fast240Z

hopefully everything is ok Tom, it'd suck if it wasn't. I believe in God, Jesus and religion, but I consider myself to be a non-denominational Christian. I've never really been into going to church since I attended a catholic school until 3rd grade, and my crazy mother decided that she wanted to be jehovah's witness, or even the night she went schitzo and claimed god and jesus were talking through her and slammed our car into a bridge...so after all that has happened to me related to God, I still believe in religion and everything about it, but I tend to stay away from the masses. I feel that if a person believes in God and they are pure of heart and mind, that they will go to Heaven and whatnot, so I try to be a good person as best I can. My girlfriend is Lutheran, and she's slightly falling away from her faith, but she still believes.

emo236

You know what, you're not alone. A lot of people are devout Christians and don't like organized religion. It's a shame what's happening to some churches these days, but it's a blessing what's happening to others. Jehova witnesses are not really sound in doctrine might I ad. I believe it's on of the sects taht the bible warns about. Many sects take the bible and make a cult about it, I believe Jehova Witnesses's to be a cult. I know this may be controversial, but this is what I believe (It may be wrong, but I don't think it is). in addition, being a church goer and being a christian are two different things that are sometimes the same thing. you can go to church and not be a christian and you can not go to church and be a christian. Do I think that Church is important and being involved in a community of believers is a positive and important thing? yes I do. Do I believe that what Church is is often misconstrued these days? yes I do. Church is when any "two or more gather" in the name of God. THis, to me and what I believe to the Bible, is church.

Fast240Z

I like your definition better, emo. My mother had a panic attack where she went temporarily insane, and claimed God was speaking through her body, not to mention other random family members and whatnot. I'm 19 now, and this happened when I was 13, but still scares me to this day. If it was God, I think he chose a strange way to talk to us, and definitely scared the **** out of me and my step sister who was in the car. After all of that, it kind of makes me shy away from religion and people who preach it, but I still believe in God nevertheless.

tnkrstoyco

I'm glad you started this thread Emo. That story (The Letter) was sent to me yesterday morning. What better place to pass it on, than here.

theramz

I understand what you mean about churches. A few, not all Christians, are what I call churchians. Some people use it for a crutch. Some just hide behind it. A true Christian lives it everyday. If God spoke to me I wouldn't tell anyone! Many people don't believe because they say they can't understand it. If God came to you and said, sit down, I'm going to explain the universe and all living things to you. Could you possibly understand? Neither could I. Just accept it and you will understand as you go through life.

emo236

"sunday Christians" .........they exist. Really though, when it comes down to it, there's fakes in everything. Take a look at this forum....there's some fakes and they are sometimes not evident at first (sometimes they are), but usually their fakeness comes out. You're right, live it everyday! And I do mean, live it! So many people see Christianity as all about a bunch of rules about things you can't do and focus on that. God said that He's "given us life to live and live it to the fullest." It's not about what you can't do, it's about what you can do. We're broken loose of the bondages and we're free. It's an awesome realization.

gabrielzzz

hmm...you know, i used to go to church a lot when i was younger (4-12) i really do believen god, and i think it took unbelievable courage to do the things he did, i believen the stories in the Bible, infact, its one of the most interesting books to me, great stories, i just still confused to this day if he is really up there watching us, helping us and teaching us, God's been hard on my life, i just dont see how someone with such great compassion could let things bad happen to us, i grew up in a home where there was no talk of God, or else you'd get hit, slapped, or even thrown against a wall a couple times, i fell upon God myself, even with all the negative input, hoping that one day things will start to look up, but i just find things getting harder and harder

gabrielzzz

i dont want to seem like i have the worst life in the world, but its been a hard life for me at least

emo236

gabriel, this is an often asked question, "why does God let bad things happen to good people." If you like to read the Bible, you know about the hardships that God puts his children throuhg. Take Paul for instance. or Job. Paul had been shipwrecked (stranded in the ocean wondering for his life) afew times, had been in jail a bunch of times (much worse than teh country clubs today) and had been stoned and beaten multiple other times. Job, I think you know taht story. God lets his beloved children go through hard times b/c it helps them grow. Have you ever met anyone who has had an extrememly easy life with a "silver spoon" in everything? They're often very immature for their age. I have quite a story mylsef. The trials (hard times) are opportunities God gives you. You can take two roads with them (free will). you can chose to be bitter about it (like I was for a while) or you can rely on God and mature and become a stronger, greater person throuhg it. It's a gift from God, but unfortunately so many pass it up...like I did in my immaturity. I want to encourage you to treasure the trials in your life. to grow from them, to let yourself go through the refiners fire. If you've never heard that term....ill explain. when they're are purifying gold/platinum, they put it through intensely hot fire to melt teh impurities out of it. The hotter the fire and the longer it's in there, the more perfect and valueable the gold/platinum will be. This is called the refiners fire since it is refining the gold/platinum. God wants to make you an amazing person because he loves you and know's what you can be. He sees you as a great man, and wants to help you get there. The harder your life is, the more God sees in you and wants to make you perfect for His perfect plan. I do beleive that, God's plan is perfect! We have a perspective looking straight foward and God has the perspective from looking from atop. He's got teh whole picture, we only have a little part of it. If he sees something up ahead that can hurt us, he's gonna prepare us or push us away from it. This often hurts. But it's awesome....he gives you tough trials b/c he loves you, it's called tough love. Only a best friend can give you touhg love, because they're sometimes the only one's that truly love you enough to do it. They're teh only one's that really care about where you're going and what happens to you. So is the same with our Lord.

Carl's Z

I believe that the hardships in life are what makes us who we are. God tests your faith in many ways. Not all hardships are trials, though. Some are brought on by ourselves and those are the toughest. God's trials are difficulties that mostly need some faith to get through.

It's sad that the meaning of this time of year has been lost to retail sales. This should be Jesus's time. I've tried to incorperate that into my kids's lives, but unfortunately, the malls and walmart have their attention, and won't give in. I hope that one day the true meaning of Christmas will prevail over the retail aspect that it's become, and if not in my lifetime, then soon after, so that my kids will enjoy it more...

Merry Christmas to all!!

emo236

well said. I'm learning what hardships are all about right now.

RPS13_GZ32

I'm sorry, I appreciate the positive idea that emo is trying to do here, but I am seriously offended by the idea of holding a "religion, yay or nay" thread on a Z car forum. This website is not for religious expression, so I would just as assume it not find it's way on here (I know you could say "so don't read it" but the point still stands, it is easier to just not bring it around, than to fight for your ability to talk about it and make a controversal discussion topic).

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate religion, as do many of you on here, but it is also this reason that I don't believe it should be made an issue of here. I wouldn't bring up any sort of discussion that is built on the "ideas" of people, because it can ultimately lead to dispute (and so often does), and so I would think that religion should just be one of those "not here, not now" discussion topics. Sorry, if I seem a little "irrational" but I respect EVERYONE and would just as much like to keep it off of here for the sake of everyone's beliefs.....and lastly because it is unfair to ask people to express their beliefs when there is so much criticism about it from all over the place, from all different types of people, it makes some people feel uncomfortable, and that isn't right.

PS. I'm sorry if you don't see or feel the need for what I said, but that is my opinion.

emo236

that is your opinion and it will be respected. This thread isn't to make anyoen uncomfortable. In defense, why can we have a thread about beer, about women, about dirty jokes (I laugh at them) and other random things....but something like God offends people? There's a reason why they call all those things "offensive language." With that said. I encourage you to read this thread and counitinue to come back. How can you ever have a REAL opinion when you've never heard the other side fully? If you want to let us know what it is that you have a problem with, then we can have an intelligent conversation...those that bash will be asked to leave, as simple as that. As John Locke argued, denying any religion not to speak is just as unacceptable than not allowing all religions to speak. This thread is for everyone. Jewish, muslim, hindu, buddhist and the athiest alike. Any other person is welcome to start a thread on their faith. Locke also argued that by closing one side of the argument is to preclude it and would end in no chance of any reasoned conversation. Let's not fall into a place where we leave this place to "no reasoned discussion."

WildmaN

That is why you started it in OFF-TOPIC. This is the place that does not pertain to Z's in anyway. I think it is cool, that there is people on this website, that believe in God. I never thought to bring it up, but I am glad you did EMO. What good is it, if it is shut out and hidden from people? The message cannot get out to people that way. It is like hiding the light, and not sharing it with anybody. It works better, when you take the cover off of it. And let everyone enjoy it's natural glow. That is how the joy gets spread around. It is like if you recorded a song, or wrote one. Or wrote a great story, but were afraid for anybody to hear or read it. How will you know if it is good or not? People's feedback is a good thing, that lets you know, how great it is. Of course you don't believe everything they say. You take what you feel will work the best, at encouraging you to maybe make it better. Or it is already pretty good enough. Anyway I think you all get the point.

"JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON"

Merry Christmas

theramz

Should we ask buddha to go somewhere else and ask for prayers? Jesus was told to shut up or die. How many Christians would there be if He kept his mouth shut? We aren't allowed to say the pledge of allegance any more because our freedom of speech and freedom of religion might offend some athiest. I won't be censored. Freedom for no religion at all is also guaranteed by the Constitution. God bless America, no offense!

WildmaN

"GOD BLESS AMERICA" That is how we have the great country we do. If God wasn't in the picture we would be restrained, and miserable because of no freedom. And we wouldn't be where we are today. And no we shouldn't tell Buddha to go somewhere else for prayers. We should encourage, and try to support the best we can. Shutting somebody out, can be fatal, and all men have the choice of freewill, and salvation.

RPS13_GZ32

Well...I expressed my opinion, and this is where it always gets difficult, everyone assumes that not talking about it is actually censorship, but in fact, it is just to have some restraint and common courtesy. This is a typical remark: "might offend some atheist." ....and that doesn't bother you? Like being an intelligent, informed non-believer makes me any less of a person?
This is what I mean; it is almost 100% impossible to hold a religious conversation with the involvement of non-belief issues without it being about how to change that person into a believer.....

I will stop fighting for what I believe in here for the sake of giving in for the "mass majority" again, even if I think the idea of a God is about the equivalent to the old idea of the world being flat......sorry if that offends anyone...

EDIT: And furthermore, being an atheist does not make me ignorant about "the other side". There is a reason I'm a non believer, and it isn't because I haven't heard and listened to others before you (AND taken it seriously)...

__________________________________________________ ______

Well, all in all, I don't care if you do or don't believe, I just think that everyone has varying opinions, and some of those opinions are considered wrong by others and it makes the whole subject of religion difficult and uneven. There will never be just 1 belief system, but there will always be science, and I would rather stick to fact than factual fiction. I will stop my argument here, anything you guys say after this I won't involve myself in, I just hope one day, you can learn to accept that there may be more than the stories, something on a grander scale that we don't even begin to understand the beginning of and we can go beyond the simple belief of a God and try to understand the bigger picture.

If the universe is 12-14 Billion years old, what makes the last 2000 years so special?

emo236

IT's not the last 2000. "In the beginning..." It takes more faith to believe that there isn't an intelligent creator. I commend you for your faith in scientific theories (evolution is the longest living theory b/c it has had to be changed so many times and cannot become a law because of it...it's not consistent like a law). Take a motor for example. It would take more faith to believe that the metal teh motor is made out of starting collecting from all over to one spot, then formed itself into an alternator, a piston, a rod, etc. Then put itself together well enough to produce hp and tq. It takes more faith to believe that it happens by itself than to believe that an intelligent creator designed all teh parts and a mechanic put the motor together.

RPS13_GZ32

OK, damn....I wasn't going to continue this, but you've got me wrapped up in this.

You’re telling me, that instead of the idea of the formation and change of the entire universe, including life on this planet over the last 14 Billion years, you believe that everything was just put here in place without any explanation, and we should just stop thinking about it at that? That there is nothing beyond that?

OK, well now lets assume (hypothetically speaking) that your right, then why out of the entire vastness of the universe this creator just so happened to pick Earth....we're the lucky ones I guess...right?

** The following is just an example***
Take a look at picture of our galaxy....tell me there isn't at least 1 other planet with life, in our galaxy alone, and then you have to figure there are virtually endless galaxies in our universe. So how many possible life forms could be out there, and your telling me that everything went down on Earth? I find that hard to believe, I do however find the idea that we aren't special realistic, I accept the fact that there may not be a God, and don’t believe humans are capable of even grasping the wholeness of our existence, our perspective on the universe is like an ant’s to the world. I believe that our current beliefs could most likely wrong, and in 2000-5000+ years from now, future civilizations will be looking back at our time period and our beliefs of our time, and how they differ from theirs, just as we do today. I guess what I’m getting at is that every couple thousand years a new religion or just a belief comes along and changes all previous ideas, this has happened MANY times in the last 10000 years alone, and it will continue to do so as long as religions evolve, wars are waged, and new ideas are created. Just remember when you preach, the ideas you spread and represent, are only a temporary idealogy of the present that will eventually be bought out by another one…even in 200 years the beliefs of our era will seem "wrong" and this is why I feel it is pointless to discuss it. Especially when there is so much ideology to one side, it would only be a “fair” discussion if there were equal amounts of people from all religions and in most cases, that isn’t how it happens.

I am now discussing a topic I didn’t feel was proper to be discussed on this forum…

EDIT: Don't think that I mean discussing it is always wrong, even though I do not agree with your beliefs, that isn't to say there isn't a need, and desire to have faith, and I am all for people discussing it. I actually encourage people to go and get involved, find happiness in faith, make connections and find understanding. But it is when this comes to me that it goes too far, it is one thing if I am interested and persue it on my own, but its another if people are always trying to convert me and tell me that I'm wrong, but "Jesus still loves you." .....enough already.