Zgringo

Golly Mr.ZeroPositive, go tell that to the refinerys that put blue, green and red dye in gasoline to distinguish the different grades of gas, so the people won't make a mistake in the grade of gas it's not good for the engines.

And while your at it tell everyone about the phone conversion (lier) we didn't have.
Keep digging the hole, your easy to bury.

Mr.CC, the first post has a website that has some good information in it, but remember it was written by the people that sell injection systems and the'll lean toward there product.
As for only getting 5% gain on a N/A engine thats kindas true and not true. I'll explane. Example: when you run a large load of nitrous you have to retard the timing, but if you run water/alky injection no need to retard the timing. You can run higher compression pistons with a lower grade gas as water/alky increases the the ability to do so by lowering the combustion temps. thus reducing the chance of detonation. Claims are but don't quote me, you can get a 60HP gain using Water/alky injection if done properly.
I do know that the F-51 aeroplane used what was called ADI (anti-dentonation-injection) for high power combat settings.
I don't think if it was unsafe it would be used in aircraft, and if it didn't have merit I don't think they would have used it. Germany was the first to use nitrous and water/alky during the 2nd war and the USA had to do a catchup game to get there planes to go as fast as the Germans.
Do they work, well I know of a N/A Z32 that runs a 450HP shot of nitrous and water/alky and runs pretty quick. You be the judge.

CanyonCarver

ha ha ha, He's definitely got low self esteem. He's probably got a big brother that beats up on him, or there's an alcoholic parent somewhere in his closet. I just had to respond to that one.

Zgringo, yeah I went to that website and found the info interesting. (even dyno charts, evan). This would be something I'd try tinkering with at a time when I was going to do a dyno run. Which I've never done yet myself. I do like the idea as an aid to being able to run higher compression ratios.

91zxtt

Either that or someone's still in the closet.

Zgringo

In considering our fellow man, we should always remember some have good points and some not so good. Just because a few are no good SOB's doesn't mean their isn't some good in them. We just have to find it.


God loves us all.............I think

Zgringo

Mr.CC, FYI the last time I run I was behind a Vette by .05 sec. and had to make up some time.
I changed my Water/alky from a 75-25 mixture to 50-50. changed my 2nd stage nitrous jets from 150 to 250, ran my boost from 20# to 24#, never touched the timing, and made my fastest pass ever with that car and beat the Vette by .02 sec.
Gotta go back and do some homework as I melted 4 electrodes on the plugs, so I was getting close to disaster. I think if I run alittle more water/alky it well cure the problem

rifleman502

okay, Evan, i know a LITTLE about car fuel adatives and basic chemistry, if i recall correctly, Ethanol alcahol is the main ingredient in dry-gas to make the water in teh fuel soluble, so that it will mix with the petroleum products and burn with the gas... so im gonna go out on a limb here and say that the ethanol is added to the water so that when it enters the combustion chamber it will combust as opposed to hamper the combustion of the fuel, just a guess....

Zgringo

Your not on a limb, your statement is correct. I like your car.

00Evan

Wait a tick.

Did anyone else notice Zgringo is supposedly using a product that comes in aerosol cans for his injection? How the **** does that work dumbass, do you spray the cans in the intake like nawwwzzzz!?

732tt

he never said he used the cans.

Zgringo

Thanks for pointing that out. It seems big ZeroZero has a reading problem. But what do you expect from someone who never made it past the 3rd grade, and trys to pick up girls on a bicycle.

Riz Z Speed

to comment on your statement,
"dumping" window cleaner would have the same effect as "dumping" gasoline into the engine. That's what is known as flooding.
I believe that the delivery of the water, ethanol, methanol, nitrous, or other air/fuel additive is the key to it's success.

CanyonCarver

So will you go to a larger orifice in the injection system or try increasing the pump voltage? The orifices in the kit look kinda like plain old carb jets and the pump looks like a walbro (or equiv.) fuel pump..... Do you run any EGT guages? It seems like it would be a good way to tune the system, tied of course to afr's.
I'd say you're lucky on the plug electrodes. I had the center electrode come apart one time and it bent an intake valve and broke an exhaust valve on its way out.

Oh yeah, I'll re-reiterate, the alcohol in the window cleaner is to keep it from freezing.

entropy31

you just shot yourself in the foot there. you truly need to read things before opening your mouth, otherwise that foot i mentioned will end up in there. zgringo clearly states that he uses a 1-2 gallon container. is the 00 in your name for "0Friends, 0Credibility"?

Zgringo

CC, Snow the company that made my system suggests I go to the 220psi pump and 4 jets and and run 25% water, 75% methanol when running high boosts and nitrous at the same time. for normal driving I can cut back the W/A volume injected.
I have dual EGT's and dual wide band o2's and it makes setting the A/F a snap.
As for being lucky with my plugs, thats the under statement of the day. Nothing broke off, just melted, telling me things got pretty hot in the combustion chamber. I've since backed off on the boost and nitrous till I get this problem solved.
And your right, the alcohol is there for nothing more than to keep the fluid from freezing

Woody75(Denver)

You need to start reading the articles on the injection kits and testing. You can start on Google. Lots of info there.

It has been proven that a mixture of water and methonal or alcohol provides better results than running either straight.

I also use windsheild washer fluid in my system. No problems at all. Lots of people use this. It has been proven to work just fine for years with no problems.

The little amount of soap in the windsheild fluid also acts as a lubricate for the pump. Another plus.

I don't need any scientific info here, I'm using real world testing results and hands on testing results.

Zgringo

I know for some to use Google to do a search is a No..no... Would you be as so kind and tell us how you came about using automotive window cleaner? Why you use it and how it works.

Woody75(Denver)

I think you need to stop saying "automotive window cleaner". I think you are confusing some people into thinking you are using the aerosol spray glass cleaner that's in a can. It's windsheild washer fluid, the blue stuff that comes in a jug that you pour in. At least I'm assuming that's what you are using (as well as I and others).

I started using the washer fluid more because others have been doing so for some time now. I read the benefits of it's mixture is a few articles in my searchings on Google. It's also easy to get, you can use the same container thats in the car already if you want, and it's cheap. And it's already mixed and ready to go. There are lots of scientific write ups and such out there that show why the mixture does a better job at cooling the charge than a straight mix of just water or alcohol. If I remember correctly it's about the way it effects the charge during combustion. The water has a certain flash off point, and then so does the alcohol/methonal. So by using both you get a wider range that the fluid effects the combustion process. If you just use one or the other it will burn off all at once at once certain temp. Don't quote me on this, it's been awhile. Lol.

I'll see if I can find some of the articles I read back in the day and I'll post up the link.

CanyonCarver

Good supporting info woody, what kind of rims are on your car?
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, so be nice evan. I haven't done a google search because it's not that important to me.................... but, if you've heard of oxygenated fuels (during the winter in cali) they add ethanol/methanol to the gasoline to make your car run leaner. The idea being that these alcohols have an extra oxygen molecule that leans out the combustion process. My point being that with water/alky injection, if you could time in more fuel, you'd make even more power............. Just a thought.

Zgringo

Thats the idea behind it CC. You can run more boost and or nitrous without having to retard your timing and losing power.
Woody, I only used the term Automative window cleaner as I didn't want to confuse it with household window cleaner, but it is called automotive windshield washer fluid.

Woody75(Denver)

They are 5Zigen Copse. 18x8 and 9.

You are correct in you assumptions. Once thing to keep in mind though. If you just add fluid injection and don't change anything else it will not help you and in some cases has shown to actually hurt power. To get the benefits of it you need to raise the boost level and/or timing. Pretty much the same things you do when running race gas.

Zgringo

Almost like adding anything. You need to do some home work to get all the benefits from a added part. You don't have to add big IC or retard you timing and lose power when you use W/A injection. I call it an enhanser for boost and nitrous.

tangeray

Someone explain where you add this "washer fluid"? is it to the gas tank? do you have to create a stand alone injection system like a water mister? or do you add it to the coolant?...im very interested.

~~Tangeray

CanyonCarver

Click here......
http://www.snowperformance.net/

LUKassZ

evan, for once zgringo is correct, drop it allready!!

tangeray

so you need a stand alone system? I didnt get much from that website