Drivers side window replacement tutorial!!
04-12-2005, 05:27 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Drivers side window replacement tutorial!!
Hey guys and gals,
Had the worst week of my Z life. First, about 2 months ago I decided to put a decent system into the Z. I bought a set of infinity kappa perfect 6.1 components and some kappa 4x6's for the rears. I wired the whole car with some 12 gauge lightning audio speaker cable. The wiring took me a few days in between work and such. So I get one side completely wired from speakers->crossovers->deck. My buddy wants to hear it so I decide (againt my best judgement) to hook up the deck. He holds the front dangling speaker wires apart so they wont ground. I plug in the deck and immediately it begins to smoke something FEIRCE!!. It blows the fuse and frys the deck. It appears the drivers rear speaker wires were grounded against chasis ground at the time I plugged it in. I felt like an idiot and was very pissed.
Second, As I was driving to work that very next day, I go to roll up my window and the thing gets 3/4 of the way up, makes a funny binding sound and BAMMMMM!!!!!! shatters in on me. That day was today. I went to the junkyard and found a donor window for 50 bucks. Now, I need some really expert help in installing this thing because It appears to be the biggest pain in the *** there is. If there is anyone who has ever done a drivers side window replacement before, please post up some pictures/tips/tutorials etc..etc... Im going to attempt this tomorrow. I have searched the forums and cant find anything, but Im sure someone will prove me wrong.
-I know my Zdriver companions will come through for me on this one. Thanks in advance everyone.
Sincerely,
Charles Kilchrist
Tangeray
Had the worst week of my Z life. First, about 2 months ago I decided to put a decent system into the Z. I bought a set of infinity kappa perfect 6.1 components and some kappa 4x6's for the rears. I wired the whole car with some 12 gauge lightning audio speaker cable. The wiring took me a few days in between work and such. So I get one side completely wired from speakers->crossovers->deck. My buddy wants to hear it so I decide (againt my best judgement) to hook up the deck. He holds the front dangling speaker wires apart so they wont ground. I plug in the deck and immediately it begins to smoke something FEIRCE!!. It blows the fuse and frys the deck. It appears the drivers rear speaker wires were grounded against chasis ground at the time I plugged it in. I felt like an idiot and was very pissed.
Second, As I was driving to work that very next day, I go to roll up my window and the thing gets 3/4 of the way up, makes a funny binding sound and BAMMMMM!!!!!! shatters in on me. That day was today. I went to the junkyard and found a donor window for 50 bucks. Now, I need some really expert help in installing this thing because It appears to be the biggest pain in the *** there is. If there is anyone who has ever done a drivers side window replacement before, please post up some pictures/tips/tutorials etc..etc... Im going to attempt this tomorrow. I have searched the forums and cant find anything, but Im sure someone will prove me wrong.
-I know my Zdriver companions will come through for me on this one. Thanks in advance everyone.
Sincerely,
Charles Kilchrist
Tangeray
04-13-2005, 01:59 AM
#3
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Location: Las Vegas, NV
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First you need to ditch those stock bose speaker enclosures. take them out, take them apart, and use the top half as a template. You have to cut off some of the plastic studs to make it as flat as possible. Go to home depot and grab some plexi glass...get something of decent thickness. Then, lay the template over the plexi and mark it out with a permanent marker. (you can leave the plastic covering on if you want, its no biggie). I used a jigsaw with a metal cutting 24 TPI blade. The plexiglass fuses back to itself about 3 seconds after you cut through it. DONT BE IMPATIENT BECAUSE IT WILL CRACK!!!!!!....all you have to do is trace your cut line 3-4 more times then you can bend it off.
--do small sections at a time.
-Next, test fit the plexiglass over the hole in the door and mark out the mounting hole locations and make necessary trim adjustments at this time. Now, drill out the holes.
---CAUTION---Drilling plexiglass is not something that can be done quick. Put the bit to the glass and just let the weight of the drill itself push through the glass. You can use small pressure every 3-4 seconds to help it allong. If its drilling on its own weight, then let it be. Trust me, I cracked a sheet before.
- Once the holes are drilled and the template has taken its final form, mount it to the hole and use a marker to draw a line that traces the inner sheet metal of the door so you know where your limits are so the speaker doesnt hit the door frame.
- 6.5"s will fit nicely, You can actually fit bigger in there if you are so ambitious and want to cut some of the metal away. You can use that same jigsaw setup to do that or use a plasma cutter.
-I also put tweets in the upper door also and routed the cables around the door air vent.
. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Note:::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: you can also use wood instead of plexiglass but I plan to mount some small LED's behind the plexiglass so it will light up my speaker grill with a console mounted switch. As far as the the interior door panel goes, you might need to cut away some of the fiberboard/vinyl to allow clearance of the suspension of the bigger speaker. Just grab some big 6x9 grills or something and cover the whole thing, or re-vinyl the speaker door panel for a custom flush look using the aftermarket grills that come with your speaker of choice.
-----Hope this helps---Let me know if you want me to take some pictures and stuff
--do small sections at a time.
-Next, test fit the plexiglass over the hole in the door and mark out the mounting hole locations and make necessary trim adjustments at this time. Now, drill out the holes.
---CAUTION---Drilling plexiglass is not something that can be done quick. Put the bit to the glass and just let the weight of the drill itself push through the glass. You can use small pressure every 3-4 seconds to help it allong. If its drilling on its own weight, then let it be. Trust me, I cracked a sheet before.
- Once the holes are drilled and the template has taken its final form, mount it to the hole and use a marker to draw a line that traces the inner sheet metal of the door so you know where your limits are so the speaker doesnt hit the door frame.
- 6.5"s will fit nicely, You can actually fit bigger in there if you are so ambitious and want to cut some of the metal away. You can use that same jigsaw setup to do that or use a plasma cutter.
-I also put tweets in the upper door also and routed the cables around the door air vent.
. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Note:::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: you can also use wood instead of plexiglass but I plan to mount some small LED's behind the plexiglass so it will light up my speaker grill with a console mounted switch. As far as the the interior door panel goes, you might need to cut away some of the fiberboard/vinyl to allow clearance of the suspension of the bigger speaker. Just grab some big 6x9 grills or something and cover the whole thing, or re-vinyl the speaker door panel for a custom flush look using the aftermarket grills that come with your speaker of choice.
-----Hope this helps---Let me know if you want me to take some pictures and stuff
04-13-2005, 03:26 AM
#5
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That link definitely outlines an alternative to Z32 speaker replacement. There are a few downfalls to that setup though.
1. using the stock bose enclosures limits you to the size of speaker you can install. Also, the stock bose enclosures are ported for the stock bose 4" speaker. Upgrading, using the stock bose enclosures will significantly lower the cubic feet inside the enclosure which will produce horrible off-tones and not allow the speaker hardware to function at full capacity. Using a free air speaker mounting design is 100X better than using a sealed/ported enclosure not designed to speaker specifications. I build speaker boxes/cabinets as a side job
2. Your're piggy-backing off the stock wiring which was designed to hit the stock bose amplifier first, then the speaker. Also the stock wiring goes through multiple junction points and connectors which could be sonically devastating when trying to push high wattage speakers
3. mounting a tweeter inside an air vent is probably not the best idea for a high end component system. Super-cooling and super heating a titanium dome tweeter (pretty much the standard these days) WILL damage that tweeter in a matter of time. Not to mention the heat issue when dealing with sound. Heat=resistance=electrical pressure=distortion
I myself like to build sound systems to house future upgrades because technology always manifests better hardware. That is the reason I chose to rewire the whole car with 12 gauge sheilded speaker cable. I dont take sound lightly. I am a musician also, so im the type of person that can hear that off-tone, or the absense there-of. Most people I guess wouldnt really care about obtaining the highest possible quality sound they can, so that "link" method would be perfect for them.
1. using the stock bose enclosures limits you to the size of speaker you can install. Also, the stock bose enclosures are ported for the stock bose 4" speaker. Upgrading, using the stock bose enclosures will significantly lower the cubic feet inside the enclosure which will produce horrible off-tones and not allow the speaker hardware to function at full capacity. Using a free air speaker mounting design is 100X better than using a sealed/ported enclosure not designed to speaker specifications. I build speaker boxes/cabinets as a side job
2. Your're piggy-backing off the stock wiring which was designed to hit the stock bose amplifier first, then the speaker. Also the stock wiring goes through multiple junction points and connectors which could be sonically devastating when trying to push high wattage speakers
3. mounting a tweeter inside an air vent is probably not the best idea for a high end component system. Super-cooling and super heating a titanium dome tweeter (pretty much the standard these days) WILL damage that tweeter in a matter of time. Not to mention the heat issue when dealing with sound. Heat=resistance=electrical pressure=distortion
I myself like to build sound systems to house future upgrades because technology always manifests better hardware. That is the reason I chose to rewire the whole car with 12 gauge sheilded speaker cable. I dont take sound lightly. I am a musician also, so im the type of person that can hear that off-tone, or the absense there-of. Most people I guess wouldnt really care about obtaining the highest possible quality sound they can, so that "link" method would be perfect for them.
Last edited by tangeray; 04-13-2005 at 03:31 AM.
04-13-2005, 09:48 AM
#6
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Thornton, CO
Posts: 57
Speaker replacement? No Comment. Once you start to take apart the door for the replacement of the window be sure to examine the door frame for any obstructions as well as the acuator and crank assembly. Windows don't just shatter on their own so you probably have either worn out guide rails in the door binding the window or part/all of the motor/crank assembly needs to be replaced. Be very carefull to find the problem that caused your window to break in the first place or its gonna be "funny binding sound and BAMMMMM!!!!!! shatters in on me." all over again.
04-13-2005, 01:48 PM
#8
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Yea, I did that when I insalled them since thier magnets protruded farther than the stock box. I actually found what made it shatter. Theres 2 window guides in the form of white plastic U shaped cups mounted to the regulator via bolts and nuts. The window guide towards the back of the door broke off and seated the wikndow behind the regulator and the front was still installed. I guess the installation process of the speakers made enough rattle and roll in the door panel to finally snap it loose. Well, when the window was going up, the front guide wanted to pull the window towards the car to mate with the T-tops seal and the rear guide was actually pushing it away. The tension finally gave way and shattered it. After it shattered I took both door panels off to double check speaker displacement and checked the wires also to make sure they didnt play a part in my windows demise. All checked out good. Today I got the new window in and gave it a couple test runs up and down. Im using new guides that came with the donor window this time. Thanks for the input though. You guys were definitely on the right track.
--On a side note......This might help someone who has to do this in the future.
TIPS::
1. remove the rear metal window track before installation. Slip them in after you drop the window down into the cavity.
2. You have to loosen the front window track and lift it up a small bit to get the roller of the window inside it. Do this after the rear track has been slipped onto the rollers.
3. Use the Tracks to adjust the way the window finally seats in the up position. You can just roll the window up, loosen the Track bolts and pull the Tracks in the direction you need them to be. I found that by pulling the tracks all the way to the rear of the door is the best location to mate up with the T-tops seal.
4. There is 2 window travel limiters mounted to the top side of the door panel. Remove both of these and set them accordingly after installation. My adjustments were as follows......Front stop=FULL DOWN.....Rear Stop=FULL UP.
5. While all this is apart, take this time to toss some grease in the tracks and lube up the rollers with some grease also. I used mobile 1 synthetic bearing grease.
6. Make sure when dropping the window into the door cavity that you dont snag the regulator/door lock wires. The window rollers have a tendancy to hang on those and the weight of the window will surely loosen up some of those connectors. Be careful
7. The whole replacement took me about 3-4 hours. This is terribly long by a professionals standpoint. But most of that time is cleaning out the old glass, writing down where everything goes, making diagrams, bagging all necessary hardware, and inspecting your door components while everything is off and replacement small hardware as necessary.
Hope this helps some people. Special thanks goes out to Scotty from 3zc.com who actually called me up and walked me through the whole process the night before. Scotty is one of those guys that reads a book and 3 months later can tell you whats on page 39. He was very knowledgable and I dont think I could have done it as smooth as I did without his help. So if you read this scotty, thanks allot man!!
--On a side note......This might help someone who has to do this in the future.
TIPS::
1. remove the rear metal window track before installation. Slip them in after you drop the window down into the cavity.
2. You have to loosen the front window track and lift it up a small bit to get the roller of the window inside it. Do this after the rear track has been slipped onto the rollers.
3. Use the Tracks to adjust the way the window finally seats in the up position. You can just roll the window up, loosen the Track bolts and pull the Tracks in the direction you need them to be. I found that by pulling the tracks all the way to the rear of the door is the best location to mate up with the T-tops seal.
4. There is 2 window travel limiters mounted to the top side of the door panel. Remove both of these and set them accordingly after installation. My adjustments were as follows......Front stop=FULL DOWN.....Rear Stop=FULL UP.
5. While all this is apart, take this time to toss some grease in the tracks and lube up the rollers with some grease also. I used mobile 1 synthetic bearing grease.
6. Make sure when dropping the window into the door cavity that you dont snag the regulator/door lock wires. The window rollers have a tendancy to hang on those and the weight of the window will surely loosen up some of those connectors. Be careful
7. The whole replacement took me about 3-4 hours. This is terribly long by a professionals standpoint. But most of that time is cleaning out the old glass, writing down where everything goes, making diagrams, bagging all necessary hardware, and inspecting your door components while everything is off and replacement small hardware as necessary.
Hope this helps some people. Special thanks goes out to Scotty from 3zc.com who actually called me up and walked me through the whole process the night before. Scotty is one of those guys that reads a book and 3 months later can tell you whats on page 39. He was very knowledgable and I dont think I could have done it as smooth as I did without his help. So if you read this scotty, thanks allot man!!
Last edited by Riz Z Speed; 04-13-2005 at 04:16 PM.
04-13-2005, 02:32 PM
#9
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Waterford, CA, USA
Posts: 143
damn, that sounds complicated to do and i dont wanna break my window... i guess i will do it some other time and in the mean while, ill buy some 4x6's for the rear...
i would like to see some pics, tangeray, of ur setup.
i would like to see some pics, tangeray, of ur setup.
Last edited by phrozen209; 04-13-2005 at 02:39 PM.
04-13-2005, 04:46 PM
#10
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: WA
Posts: 5,690
dont get 4x6s, go with a plate speaker with a round woofer and seperate tweeter. oval woofers give a distorted sound, and they have a hole in them for the tweeter, whereas the round woofer has equal force distributed around the cone and no hole. something like this one from infinity.
04-13-2005, 09:35 PM
#11
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Those are what I got . They are the infinity kappa 4X6 custom plate speakers.
--on a side note. i hooked up everything finally today and gave it a test run. To my surprise my old problem followed me once again. let me give some history on this so i can get some input.
when i bought the Z 5 months ago, it had a sony tape deck in it. It would start to crackel VERY loud around 3/5 of the way up the volume ****. it was an old deck so i figured no big deal. I got a JVC MP3 deck from my buddy for an xbox mod job i did for him. I put that sucker in, and guess what.....Same thing followed. Around 32/50 on the volume ****, I would get that crackling sound. Today, I put a brand new JVC deck into the Z. Hooked up the wiring harness to try the new system....and bamm!...same distortion/static/crackel in the speakers at mid volume and gets horribly ear shattering worse as volume goes up. So I just got done doing some troubleshooting on the whole system. heres a background on the setup.
--SPEAKER WIRE--
- Whole car independantly run with 12 gauge lightning audio speaker cable. Non-directional. All connection points soldered together. no splices. I used ring terminals for hookup to the crossovers and 6.5's. Soldered the tweeters to their own set of 12 gauge wires.
--SPEAKERS--
1 set of infinity kappa perfect 6.1 speakers with tweeters installed. They are brand new from sealed box.
1 pair of infinity kappa 4x6 custom plate speakers in the rears (the ones entropy has a picture of).
----6.5's do not touch any part of door at all. 4x6's are ran in the stock rear bose enclosures modified just a tad to house the speakers. All connections to the rear speakers are soldered in also.
TROUBLESHOOTING--
1. First things first, check my ground. Disconnected grounding cable from chasis ground and tried 4 other places. Then, tried a direct hookup to my amplifier power/ground cables to try and isolate a bad chasis ground connection. (I dont have an amplifier, but all the wires are run)
2. My goal was to isolate the system from the rest of the car. All the speaker wires are stand alone wires going through only crossovers to get to the deck. We used the power/ground cables from the amp kit to hook the radio up to eliminate a bad "car" wiring harness problem.
3. Next, We cut the power antenna line from the back of the deck to make sure the power antenna was not somehow picking up static and feeding it through the stereo.
4. Lastly, and most radical. To further elimate any ideas of the car wiring being bad, we pulled my buddies car next to mine and ran some cables to his positive and negative terminals directly to my positive and negative head unit wires. Still had crackling.
At this point, my problem is that my past three radios in my Z have all produced crackling/static/distortion at mid range volume. I have officially isolated every aspect of the sound system from the car wiring and still the problem persists. The only other variable in this equation that has remained contant in the past 3 decks was that I solder all my speaker connections to deck and speaker unless the speaker has a ring terminal slot, in which case I solder the wire to the ring terminals and mount to speaker. I've done multiple systems this way with absolutely no problem whatsoever. This is baffling me and my friends. if anyones got some input, please feel free to add.....
****Few notes to Troubleshooters*****
1. Distortion comes from all 6 speakers at the same time so i doubt its a set of blown speakers
2. Every speaker has been doubled checked to make sure positive is going to positive and negative is going to negative.
Peace out.
. They are the infinity kappa 4X6 custom plate speakers. --on a side note. i hooked up everything finally today and gave it a test run. To my surprise my old problem followed me once again. let me give some history on this so i can get some input.
when i bought the Z 5 months ago, it had a sony tape deck in it. It would start to crackel VERY loud around 3/5 of the way up the volume ****. it was an old deck so i figured no big deal. I got a JVC MP3 deck from my buddy for an xbox mod job i did for him. I put that sucker in, and guess what.....Same thing followed. Around 32/50 on the volume ****, I would get that crackling sound. Today, I put a brand new JVC deck into the Z. Hooked up the wiring harness to try the new system....and bamm!...same distortion/static/crackel in the speakers at mid volume and gets horribly ear shattering worse as volume goes up. So I just got done doing some troubleshooting on the whole system. heres a background on the setup.
--SPEAKER WIRE--
- Whole car independantly run with 12 gauge lightning audio speaker cable. Non-directional. All connection points soldered together. no splices. I used ring terminals for hookup to the crossovers and 6.5's. Soldered the tweeters to their own set of 12 gauge wires.
--SPEAKERS--
1 set of infinity kappa perfect 6.1 speakers with tweeters installed. They are brand new from sealed box.
1 pair of infinity kappa 4x6 custom plate speakers in the rears (the ones entropy has a picture of).
----6.5's do not touch any part of door at all. 4x6's are ran in the stock rear bose enclosures modified just a tad to house the speakers. All connections to the rear speakers are soldered in also.
TROUBLESHOOTING--
1. First things first, check my ground. Disconnected grounding cable from chasis ground and tried 4 other places. Then, tried a direct hookup to my amplifier power/ground cables to try and isolate a bad chasis ground connection. (I dont have an amplifier, but all the wires are run)
2. My goal was to isolate the system from the rest of the car. All the speaker wires are stand alone wires going through only crossovers to get to the deck. We used the power/ground cables from the amp kit to hook the radio up to eliminate a bad "car" wiring harness problem.
3. Next, We cut the power antenna line from the back of the deck to make sure the power antenna was not somehow picking up static and feeding it through the stereo.
4. Lastly, and most radical. To further elimate any ideas of the car wiring being bad, we pulled my buddies car next to mine and ran some cables to his positive and negative terminals directly to my positive and negative head unit wires. Still had crackling.
At this point, my problem is that my past three radios in my Z have all produced crackling/static/distortion at mid range volume. I have officially isolated every aspect of the sound system from the car wiring and still the problem persists. The only other variable in this equation that has remained contant in the past 3 decks was that I solder all my speaker connections to deck and speaker unless the speaker has a ring terminal slot, in which case I solder the wire to the ring terminals and mount to speaker. I've done multiple systems this way with absolutely no problem whatsoever. This is baffling me and my friends. if anyones got some input, please feel free to add.....
****Few notes to Troubleshooters*****
1. Distortion comes from all 6 speakers at the same time so i doubt its a set of blown speakers
2. Every speaker has been doubled checked to make sure positive is going to positive and negative is going to negative.
Peace out.
04-14-2005, 09:17 PM
#12
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Waterford, CA, USA
Posts: 143
damn, you guys should have told me earlier about not getting 4x6's! i got these though. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN%3AIT&rd=1
am i gonna need the speaker brackets from courtesy parts for these speakers??? and what about getting those brackets for the door speakers? they say that you can fit 6".
am i gonna need the speaker brackets from courtesy parts for these speakers??? and what about getting those brackets for the door speakers? they say that you can fit 6".
Last edited by phrozen209; 04-14-2005 at 09:19 PM.
04-14-2005, 09:28 PM
#13
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 83
First, My problem is fixed by amping the whole setup with an xplod 600wx4 setup. Sounds fabulous!!
phrozen-- MB quarts are a very good speaker, so you shouldnt have problems. As far as brackets are concerned. No you wont need those brackets. Just grab a dremel to make some small modifications to the stock rear bose enclosures to fit them in. I had no problems putting the plates in and they actually have more mounting surface to deal with. you should be fine. As far as door brackets for the 6" speakers...Im not really sure what they mean?
--I beleive they are just trying to sell you an official nissan grade speaker bracket like the one I fabricated from plexiglass. The material is most likely different, but they probably serve the same purpose. Try and post some pics of the speaker brackets that they were referring to.
--Keep in mind, my plexiglass enclosures ran me around $17 to make for both doors and if you went wood, you could probably get them made for free if someone had some donor MDF or plywood. Or else an 8X4 sheet is around $30. You would only need a fraction of that, so figure about 5-6$ worth of wood to make the same thing.
phrozen-- MB quarts are a very good speaker, so you shouldnt have problems. As far as brackets are concerned. No you wont need those brackets. Just grab a dremel to make some small modifications to the stock rear bose enclosures to fit them in. I had no problems putting the plates in and they actually have more mounting surface to deal with. you should be fine. As far as door brackets for the 6" speakers...Im not really sure what they mean?
--I beleive they are just trying to sell you an official nissan grade speaker bracket like the one I fabricated from plexiglass. The material is most likely different, but they probably serve the same purpose. Try and post some pics of the speaker brackets that they were referring to.
--Keep in mind, my plexiglass enclosures ran me around $17 to make for both doors and if you went wood, you could probably get them made for free if someone had some donor MDF or plywood. Or else an 8X4 sheet is around $30. You would only need a fraction of that, so figure about 5-6$ worth of wood to make the same thing.
04-14-2005, 11:25 PM
#15
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Waterford, CA, USA
Posts: 143
cool. these are the brackets i was talking about. http://www.courtesyparts.com/Merchan...de=28167-00001
they are about $80 for both
, so it would be A LOT cheaper making my own
they are about $80 for both
, so it would be A LOT cheaper making my own
04-15-2005, 12:29 AM
#16
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 83
OEM part manufacturers would charge $20 for a pile of human **** if they thought there was a market for a product of that type ....Yea dude, Just fab some of your own, ...
Reasons why?
1. Its really not that hard once you have your material and some rough measurements.
2. And its fun to customize your car the way you want it and show others your handy work.
Got a question for ya though.....What head unit are you using and what door speakers are you using?? The reason I ask is that those MB quartz are gonna suck some serious juice. Wanna make sure your head unit can handle it. The kappa perfect 6.1's were the highest RMS handling door speakers I've been able to afford for my vehicle and I had to amp them in order to get the correct sound out of them........Now on to adjusting my amplifier...DAMMIT!...need some multimeter batteries
!... Peace out.
....Yea dude, Just fab some of your own, ...Reasons why?
1. Its really not that hard once you have your material and some rough measurements.
2. And its fun to customize your car the way you want it and show others your handy work.
Got a question for ya though.....What head unit are you using and what door speakers are you using?? The reason I ask is that those MB quartz are gonna suck some serious juice. Wanna make sure your head unit can handle it. The kappa perfect 6.1's were the highest RMS handling door speakers I've been able to afford for my vehicle and I had to amp them in order to get the correct sound out of them........Now on to adjusting my amplifier...DAMMIT!...need some multimeter batteries
!... Peace out.
Your in luck!! Im gonna fabricate one in about 5-10 minutes. !! its USDM though 
04-15-2005, 07:42 AM
#19
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Thornton, CO
Posts: 57
I guess when I said no comment on the install I should have voiced my opinion. Which was "why did you think deck power would be sufficiant to drive high end speakers." Always remember that deck power even when high power is always dirty power. If you claim to be such an audiophile with such careful install measures you should research powering the system. For future reference to all, amplifiers were designed for a specific reason and that is to increase the signal cleanly and efficiantly while the decks purpose is to produce that signal as cleanly and efficiantly as possible. No deck amps can efficiantly handle the power for a high end install and even the lowest of the Kappa series is definately a power hungry speaker.
04-15-2005, 12:04 PM
#20
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Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 83
No deck amps can efficiantly handle the power for a high end install and even the lowest of the Kappa series is definately a power hungry speaker
why did you think deck power would be sufficiant to drive high end speakers."
For future reference to all, amplifiers were designed for a specific reason and that is to increase the signal cleanly and efficiantly while the decks purpose is to produce that signal as cleanly and efficiantly as possible.
This statement is like saying ," Attention folks, Im a highly technical car guy and let me tell you this, your front tires in your car are specifically engineered to roll while the rear tires on your car are precisely designed to roll".--I guess what Im trying to say is,,,No duh. Nice "future reference"
--Also, associating those producing and increasing terms is going to get you into trouble. Because the amplifier overall increases the signal by producing many many different smaller signals through its tranducer/inductor networks. The deck has the same thing by the way. Ta Ta....
Always remember that deck power even when high power is always dirty power
This is so far from the truth its not funny. Even in a damn rampage deck you can get clean power up to 60-70% of max. And if its always dirty power like you say it is, then NOBODY on earth has a clean sounding system. Ill give you a HA on that one.Let me try and clear this up for you sir. YOUR DECK is specifically designed to be a stepping block in power output for your sound system. It is designed to max the input signal (CD,Radio) without being distorted, then send it to the amplifier where the amp will adjust its gain as LITTLE AS POSSIBLE to achieve desired levels. Whats teh proper way to do this?? There are many ways to do this setting up procedure. You can use a multimeter, a scope, or your ear.
Multimeter- This way ensures that you dont OVERCURRENT anything in your system leading to blown components or clipped signals. Overcurrent going to a speaker leads to a harmful DC signal being produced that causes the "crackel" in your speaker or distorted sound. This blows speakers. The correct formula to find the voltage that should be going to your speaker is the square root of the RMS*OHM LOAD. For example if you have a 100w RMS speaker rateed at 4 ohms, then your max output to that speaker in volts is 20. Dont go over that to be safe.
SCOPE- Nobody will have this, so no need to go into it.
EAR- Turn deck to 75-85% of max, amp gain all teh way down, play a test tone of 1kz in a loop. Adjust gain till speaker just starts to distort. Back down gain a hair or two to be safe. Do same for rears... Then blend in subs.
Denver...If your gonna take a pop shot at my knowledge of sound systems, then you better come correct and some accurate information. I dont claim to be GOD, but I know a thing or two about sound because Im passionate about sound. I try different things and ask allot of questions, even if I know the answer Ill ask the question just to see what other people say. Sometimes you get new information. Be open minded is the name of the game. Yes it would have been nice to not have to buy an amp, but I proved myself wrong. Life goes on.
Last edited by Riz Z Speed; 04-16-2005 at 12:34 AM.
04-15-2005, 02:38 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Waterford, CA, USA
Posts: 143
i have the pioneer premier DEH-P960MP. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...496605,00.html
its a nice deck with 50Wx4.
its a nice deck with 50Wx4.
04-15-2005, 09:34 PM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Thornton, CO
Posts: 57
Get's em every time. If you would like me to get technical about what I said then just ask. Most people ont his forum are trying to be horespower guys not showstopping stereo enthusiasts so it got broken down to laymans terms, if you don't think them correct the so be it. As far as anything being far from the truth, the Kappa series has always been a finicky speaker requiring an above average amount of power to produce good clean sound imo, I have, as you said, seen some late 90's kappas in low wattage systems work just fine. It does however amuse me that you bring forth all of this knowledge after your instense troubleshooting. while your cure was in the 3rd step of a proffesional trouble shoot you would even find at the eastern swap meet. (which byt the way you did start off correctly) In all reality it wasn't an attempt to put you down, more like wondering out loud why if you knew soooo much about audio dynamics that you worked so hard at taking the hinges off instead of pulling the door ****. You can flame me all you want, I don't care. I love this forum so I'll take it on the chin but in the end I am running virtually the same set up as you in my Z and have 100's of hours in the install bay upside down under a dash so I am quite familiar with your woes.
04-16-2005, 12:27 AM
#23
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 83
/salute 
Denver: I apologize for taking a shot at you like the way I did. Today I started to put myself in your shoes looking at my situation with the information that I gave and I realized that I would have probably would have said the exact same thing you did. You are absolutely right in the fact that the amp was one of the first 3 problem fixers. I guess the reason I didnt go there first was because Im on such a short budget that I wanted to convince myself that it was something else.
--I guess its like being taught your whole life that the window rolls up with a switch and then one day wanting to figure out if maybe all you needed was a **** kinda thing. I guess I was just fishing for someone to be like, " All you need to do is route A wire to B wire to fix that issue" kinda thing instead of relying on the ol' faithful training. Im a Jet mechanic in the military, and more times than not you get higher up supervision telling you to change a whole assembly to fix a problem. But, then a few months later you realize that you could have just changed a small spring to fix the same problem.
Again man, I kinda lost my head there in my last post the other day and I'm really not the type of guy to pop off at the mouth like that and grow "computer screen *****". I aplogize man and I hope this wont end our valuable information exchaning relationship. Its been a while since I've conversed with another audiophile and I guess I got a little defensive. For that man, I sincerely apologize.
--On a side note, I gotta return my amp and deck in an attempt to raise money for closing costs on my house. So all my hard work went to waste, but the lesson has definitely been learned about these kappa perfect 6.1's. I guess thats worth the trouble in itself. Keep the woofers rockin man. Peace.
Denver: I apologize for taking a shot at you like the way I did. Today I started to put myself in your shoes looking at my situation with the information that I gave and I realized that I would have probably would have said the exact same thing you did. You are absolutely right in the fact that the amp was one of the first 3 problem fixers. I guess the reason I didnt go there first was because Im on such a short budget that I wanted to convince myself that it was something else.
--I guess its like being taught your whole life that the window rolls up with a switch and then one day wanting to figure out if maybe all you needed was a **** kinda thing. I guess I was just fishing for someone to be like, " All you need to do is route A wire to B wire to fix that issue" kinda thing instead of relying on the ol' faithful training. Im a Jet mechanic in the military, and more times than not you get higher up supervision telling you to change a whole assembly to fix a problem. But, then a few months later you realize that you could have just changed a small spring to fix the same problem.
Again man, I kinda lost my head there in my last post the other day and I'm really not the type of guy to pop off at the mouth like that and grow "computer screen *****". I aplogize man and I hope this wont end our valuable information exchaning relationship. Its been a while since I've conversed with another audiophile and I guess I got a little defensive. For that man, I sincerely apologize.
--On a side note, I gotta return my amp and deck in an attempt to raise money for closing costs on my house. So all my hard work went to waste, but the lesson has definitely been learned about these kappa perfect 6.1's. I guess thats worth the trouble in itself. Keep the woofers rockin man. Peace.
04-16-2005, 07:38 PM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Thornton, CO
Posts: 57
First Mr. All MIGHTY TANGERAY , Never back down from a good point. You had a strong argument and I took no offense to it. THe passing of information especially without direct conversation can easily be mistaken by either party to bruise some egoes. I AM sure that you are a knowledgable individual and was not out to directly humiliate me and I meant no disrespect in pointing out the flaw in your troubleshooting. Keep the info comin no matter what. Sometime's people get flamed on this site for silly questions but even through the flames, a phoenix arises in the form of an answer. All in good fun and as I said I have virtually the same set up so I know you will LOVE those speakers when properly powered. I can feel ya on the house in that town as well. I would hate to have to buy one in Vegas now since I just sold mine last summer (Blue Diamond and Warm Springs). I moved out while I could make a killing and I pitty the fool who has to buy in that market.
, Never back down from a good point. You had a strong argument and I took no offense to it. THe passing of information especially without direct conversation can easily be mistaken by either party to bruise some egoes. I AM sure that you are a knowledgable individual and was not out to directly humiliate me and I meant no disrespect in pointing out the flaw in your troubleshooting. Keep the info comin no matter what. Sometime's people get flamed on this site for silly questions but even through the flames, a phoenix arises in the form of an answer. All in good fun and as I said I have virtually the same set up so I know you will LOVE those speakers when properly powered. I can feel ya on the house in that town as well. I would hate to have to buy one in Vegas now since I just sold mine last summer (Blue Diamond and Warm Springs). I moved out while I could make a killing and I pitty the fool who has to buy in that market.
04-21-2005, 12:23 AM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Waterford, CA, USA
Posts: 143
hey, when i went to install my new speakers in the back, i see that there is a connector with like 5 different wires goin to the front; 2 for the speaker, and the others because of the bose amp. i need to trash that amp, so which of the wires is the positive and negative for the speakers? or should i just rewire the speakers?
