Okay... so this could be just another one of my "worthless" (as some of you see me) posts. So I'm going through my old magazine collection when I run across a 5.0 mag, from April '04. While going through this mag, I come across a TT mustang with under-mounted turbocharges off a header/manifold. It's a system, that mounts the turbochargers just above the front suspension. I think this could do alot for us, considering how restrictive our exhaust manifolds are, if we used the MSA or PaceSetter headers, and addapted a T3, or T4 flange. This is just an idea... I haven't worked on, or crawled under my Z in a while, so this may very well be an impossible idea, but for those of you who read this in the daylight, whilst I'm working, investigate and see just how possible this type of install may be.

Here's the basic information I could get off the article that does any good to us... LaMotta Performance built the turbo system for the mustang, It uses two Garrett GTBB35 turbochargers, which if I'm not mistaken are discontinued, but are T3 flanged turbochargers.

I don't want to hear anybody calling me an imbecile, or a fool for this... it was an idea that occured to me, and I saw it as a possibility. The true possibility of using those headers in "stock" form is slim... if I had to guess they'd have to be reshaped. But this is a possible idea for those of you who have the time and money to attempt a twin turbo install on your Z31 without using a VG30DETT.

I think tein T3's might be alittle too big. think about it. I mean the biggest turbo I've seen on a YY Z32 has been a 16G. wich is not that big. so I'd suggest looking into Twin T28's instead. IMO
-Juanton

Yeah I agree, T28's would be a good choice. And in twin configuration can make good power. While it's not ideal to put the turbo's that far downstream I've seen worse. I've seen a company (cant remember the name) that puts the turbo all the way back by the muffler Now that supossed to be a no no. But as long as you size the turbo right then I think what you have planned would workd just fine.

Well, now that I'm not so sleepy, I can probably give some of you a better description... The turbochargers are mounted in forward direction on the mustang, directly aligned with the oil pan. As I've said... I haven't gotten up under my car in a while, but if I had to guess, we might have enough room to do it this way: Using the Monza/MSA/PaceSetter headers... adapting a T3, or even a T4 flange for those of you who are insane enough to do so.. the units could be transverse mounted sideways. The plumbing is the only thing at this point that creates a problem. The headers are 2 1/2" or 2 3/4" I believe. The dimensions of the headers may not allow us to do this, but it's worth a try (or at least it is to me). The Bi-turbo system the Z31 uses is a good system, no doubt... but this could turn out a little better for quicker spool up and higher power. I was thinking that if the inlet housing was mounted facing the wheels, the exhaust outlets would break even at the oil pan, or bell housing. If you think about how the stock exhaust is run anyway, there shouldn't be that much trouble other than the plumbing for intake piping. Who knows... maybe somebody's crazy enough to do it. I know JohnZboy has a set of the headers and some pretty good capital, so I "nominate" him to experiment with this... don't take that the wrong way, but it's just a recomendation. I'll try to get a look at it after work tonight, but probably won't be able to. Now it's time for work....

" you really don't understand what you're up against. To note... if you're too blind to see that you can create just as much, if not more power than any Z32 around, you're lacking something inside your head. If you're obsessed with going twin turbo then go drop in a VG30DETT ... otherwise, shut up already.. you really don't know what you're doing on this one, kid.

JD"

^ That is a direct quote from your post in response
to an idea (very much similar to your own) by another user.

I found that amusing.

Hm... you serve a good point. But alas, I'm not exactly planning on doing anything with my Z anytime soon... it's basically just sittying, I need to rewire a section of the harness. I've already got a build sheet for my engine, if and when I get around to building it. My idea simply puts a solution to alot of other guys issues. Sure, you could all go out and have mandrel bent piping for the manifolds, and affix two T3 series turbines.. But, for space values, this is a pretty good idea, it also gives you more open opportunity to go with a larger frame turbine. I, myself prefer my hand fab'd manifold. Only problem with it, at the time I had it done, I was planning on using a Garrett GT37 using the journal bearing system, since then, I've decided to go with a smaller, slightly more economical turbocharger, the GT35R. Anywho, it's just an idea for those of you who care to try it out. No clue if it can be done or not, just putting it out there for you all to see.

I see your point Velox ZX. Putting the turbos under the car will avoid the space limitations of the engine compartment and make future repairs and maintanence much easier. It will also keep a lot more heat out of the engine compartment. I think your idea has merit based on those points. The VG30ET is already set up for turbocharging. It's got an oil feed line (which will need to be spliced) and it has the coolant lines (which will need to be spliced as well). Of course aftermarket ECU will have to be employed as the stock setup will not support twins nor the power levels that would warrant such a setup. If you were going to make the turbos to mount up to the ends of the headers though you would need to reinforce the headers or the weight of the turbos will crack them in no time.

Indeed, they'd have to be. But, everything must start somewhere, so #1 the idea is spawned, #2 someone decides to attempt this, #3 we all put together a basic list of necisseties to instal this system.


The flanges must be fitted to the header.
Oil lines shouldn't be hard to run due to the location of the turbines.
All plumbing will have to be routed safely and out of the way of the wheels/tires, and suspension.
I would suggest that if you wanted to use an aftermarket ECM, I would go with an HKS F-Con unit. Otherwise, I'd program and E-manage (the e-manage will probably require a splicing of the harnes, the HKS unit is premanufactured for the Z31).
As usual... the electronic control units are up to you.

You say this like it's an original idea.

Believe me, this question has been getting asked since before I can remember.

And the fact that no one has done it yet should tell you something.

Im not sure why Z32 guys want single turbo conversions and z31 guys want twin turbo setups......

But then again, i guess everybody wants to be out of the ordinary.....

Ever priced out the Z32 twin turbo upgrade?

Z32 owners don't like spending twice for everything. It gets old.

Z31 owners think they're missing something. They just don't know. Still... never seen it done.

Your an *** hat but you bring a good point to life.... 2 of everything would suck....

easy there. dont go starting anything thats gonna get you tossed.

Im not so afraid of getting tossed.... This car isnt even a second thought, and if he can be a *****, i figure i should be able to call him that on a regular basis....

Regardless, if the truth gets me tossed im probably better of.....



If anyone has a better forum for 200zr specific (Yes i have an RB in the shop waiting for the swap) please let me know....

go ahead and call him an asshat all you want. it's the truth. just dont let it get out of hand. i dont want any wars here.

I'll keep it limited.....

=)

Once a week, sound good?

Seriously though is there any forums on 200zr conversions?

It's "YOU'RE", not "YOUR".

Your is possessive and implies ownership.

You're is a contraction of the words "YOU" and "ARE".

Ya know what would be funny? If you did actually get booted from here. Then I could boot you from 300zxclub and Z31.com at the same time.

But if you don't really care, then why do you care how I act online?

Stick around for 10 years and see how many real *** hats come around asking why this is broken, this doesn't work, and if they can twin turbo their Z31. If people would quit being lazy and open their hoods, look at the problem, and look at the manual before asking a question, half the useless questions would dissappear and we could get onto discussing real issues people might be facing with modifications. But since too many people are lazy, I like being an *** hat to remind them how lazy they are.

Nope. Not in the US. Maybe in Australia though. Might want to search there.

I only know of a couple Z31s in the states running RBs. One still isn't running. The other was taken to a shop to have worked on. But since you are a shop, shouldn't you be able to place the two side by side and figure it out?

If not, remind me not to visit or recommend your shop.

LOL if i can get a RB25DETto run in a 240sx i think i can handle this one....

I was just looking to talk to ppl with more my interest in engine choice....
THe VG30ET is strong just not quite lite enough for me...

Hell i dont even know if this pig will drift very good....

Thanks for the info though, guess i'll have to learn japanesse!

I dont think you're going to save much weight with an RB. If any. And even if the VG does weigh a few lbs more it's a V layout and is going to keep it's weight further back in the chassis.

Yeah. Most likely then.There's a lot of interest in it. Just not a whole lot of people with enough $$$ to fork out for it.But you're going with an RB25DET? Umm... Dude, the VG30 was some 15 or 20% lighter than the L28 it replaced. Isn't the RB25 heavier than the L28?You'll need to do a lot of suspension work for that. Check out what "Crab Spirits" is doing.
http://www.ziptied.com/forum/viewtop...dc61faac08d7d0
Most of the time, they swap to the RB26 if they swap anything. The RB25 is virtually the same motor as the RB20, so they have no reason to swap it. Or, if they do swap to the RB25, it's probably as bolt in as the VG33 is in the states. At least, coming from the RB20 to the RB25 it should be.

The RB20DET weighs about 60 pounds more than an SR20DET, the rear weight is welcome, the front weight induces understeer.....

This car is also getting a fuel cell and a huge weight reduction, its a purpose as you can imagine is for track only...

My S13 will never be replaced....

=)

When i reffer to an RB25 in a 240sx im speaking of a customer car, im not a fan of rb's in 240's.... The Z31 is getting an RB20......the rb20 weighs about 660 with the tranny if my memory serves me right....

I think you're going backwards dude.

The RB20 is:
- smaller in displacement
- lower in stock HP
- typically more costly
- not significantly lighter if at all
- lower overall potential
- harder to get parts for

I thinks its just the 200zr bug that bit me while i was in japan last year.....
I saw one and thats all it took.....

I dont have a problem with parts....
Smaller displacement is just my thing...KA-T's and SR20's are my favorite....
The RB was 500 bux from a friend swapping an RB26DETT in his S14....
The RB20's weight distribution is key not how light it is but how its weight sits on a tight axis vs. a V configuration in which ive never been fond of...(inlines just atract me)
LMAO @ Lower potential, I dont need 500HP to drift....

Thanks for the imput though....