Rust...(sigh)
 

I think this has been mentioned before but I really dont know what to do about rust. Like say you find some on your Z, ok then what do you do? There were like 3 rust spots on my roof above the windshield and one was already a hole. Me and my uncle scraped away all the rust then Bondo'd them and sprayed factory paint and it looked great, you wouldnt know there was rust there. Then 2 months later the paint is bubbling in the same spot again! What the hell do you do to stop stubborn rust?

You Cut It Out And Grind, Put A Rust Inhibitor Weld In A New Piece And Dont Use F@%#$% Bondo. If You Are Unable Of This, Drive Up To Canada And Ill Do It. Or Pay For A Plane Ticket For Me.

Yeah the bondo was my uncles idea. But I dont have a welder, can I just go to a body shop to have them weld in a new piece cause I have no tools or machines in my garage.

Corse you can. Shop around though as some shops are cheaper than others and im not just talking price, quality as well. And when it comes to rust you dont want someone to do a quick job . . .

how well do any of those rust reformers and such work?

I Use A Product Called Rustmort, Ive Heard Of Others, They All Work By Blocking Air To The Rust And Sealing It Off, Its Kind Of A Converter, But Not Really

does that stuff work good SHADY?

Hmmm I heard you had to media blast rust to get it off like sand blast it off then if the rust has eaten to much of the metal then it would have to be removed and replaced with a new body piece then to be sprayed with a product called rust free or something like that then to be primed and seal primed and the with a 3rd phase of prime. after that you can be sure the rust would not come back.

My advice as an ex-bodyman: RUST WILL COME BACK IF IT'S NOT REMOVED. You can slow it by heating it red hot, or by using a rust eating primer... but it will never stop completely because the pit goes deeper (microscopically) than what is on the surface. Por15 does the trick & seems to have been proven to stick for a long time, but if you chip it back off, you can see the rust has not gone away.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :006:

Yeah It Works Pretty Well, You Cant Just Go Slapping It On Really Rusty Stuff, Usually I Get All The Loose Stuff Off, Grind And Media Blast Then Just To Get The Excess, I Use The Rust Converter Of Choice, Then Ppg's Etch Primer, Epoxy Promer, High Build Primer, Then Its On To Minor Body Work (blocking) And Then Paint. This Will Seal The Surface So Trouble Is Far Less Likely To Come Back, Heating Helps Too.

How much do think a shop will charge to remove and weld in a new sheet for where the roof meets the windshield? (They will also have to remove my old bondo there too...)

cut and weld is the only way, but remove your window if you like it .. for pitting.. but as you are welding close to it .. cracking !

however .. we are just delaying mother nature as in 200 years they will all be junk ;)..

So I have to drive to the shop without a windshield? Oh well, I think Ill just take my chances and ahve them do the job with it on cause im afraid there might be even more rust under the windshield trim which would make everthing harder to put back

heres the best way to deal with a body shop, talk to the foreman and slip him a 20 when your talking to him about your car, then he'll make sure it is done with pride, not just some other crap car. it helps hotrod magazine did a story on it in some issue. trust me, i worked at a body shop, you could tell the cars the foreman cared about. that and mention you have friends that need work done, so he'll try hard to get more buisness. just a thought

To do it correctly the windshield needs to be taken out. There is a lot more rust under the seal, that can't be seen. I took out my windshield & found quite a few rust holes. On most of them I used brass brazing to fill in, but on the big ones I had to make patches & fusor them in. Then I got a new fresh spotless windshield! Ah! sooo clean!

Now is that $20 US or $20 CA? We need details man :075:

depends on your country, 20 bucks to anybody is 20 bucks in there respective country that they didnt have to work for. it was in hotrod mag. so lets say usd. or you could bring tim hortons donuts, or those heart stopping krispy kreme you guys got. 1200 calories for one glazed donut, i can feel the arteries tightning

man... Shady's gunna go postal with all these Canada comments! Wait... do they have a Postal service in Canada? :s-redeemer:


ok ok... I jest I jest!

its called canada postal storage up here, its slow as %$%@$#. and im tough i can take it and chuck it back mofo

Mmmm, Donut :wasted:

Well my 20 'bucks' would be 24,69 USD..., so my foreman should be allot happier... i mean not only would he get a 20 note, but also coins!!! :032: :037:

Its all about the small details !




But on a serious note.. i would try to remove the windshield.. however it is tricky, out of over 8 zx's windshields i have (tried) to remove there are only 5 still here to complain about it.. the rest was less useful after the procedure.
You have to remove the the trim, and then wire cut it out.. but one wrong move and ... well you all of a sudden have a split window Z!!
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Sounds like the rust is very minor so for a semi permanent repair I'd clean it up and use a rust converter that gives a hard finish. Then use an epoxy glue to cover the treated area and fill the holes.

Unlike polyester fillers epoxy will not allow moisture through so a well done repair should last. Which is why epoxy is extensively used in marine applications.

thats why i epoxy primer everything first to seal it, then use conventional primer, then body work, skim coats etc.

Forgot to mention that the inside of the panel should be treated with rust converter too, then sealed after the repair has been done. The life of such a repair will depend to a large degree on how well it is done in the first place, it will never be as good as a properly welded in piece as mentioned by others but......

One quick question on a dead thread, but I have cut pieces to put on my 260 and i'm all ready.

I plan on buying a pint of Por 15, and this sunday,
cutting out the old pieces (floorpan, etc) ,
welding the new ones in,
grinding off the excess,
then coating the bare metal with the Por15 twice,
grinding then painting.

will this work? or should I use like a bunch of chemicals on it to prep it and stuff?

Have you ever done body work before?

yeah its me nismo, I just had to take a break and posted in a different forum, but i didn't figure it mattered which rust forum. yeah i'm ready to body work wise, i just gotta figure out whats a good rust preventor

Ah yes my young grasshopper. :D Use weld through primer on the bare metal before welding. Then once you've got the metal how you want it, use POR15. Make sure you apply the POR15 metal conditioner first. Then seal it off w/ some GOOD rubberized undercoating.

can i just use this for weld through primer?
http://www.por15.com/prodinfo.asp?grp=MR&dept=2
and instead of rubberized undercoating, just por15 the bottom side and i'm putting damplier and overkill anyways, won't that do the trick?

No........ that POR15 "Metal Ready" is to condition the metal... like it says in the description.

You use WELD THROUGH PRIMER for weld through primer. :D

And if you are replacing the floor pan metal... the new metal won't have undercoating on it right? Put undercoating back on.

This is why I always ask people: Do you have experience in auto body work? There's more to it than just slapping some metal in place. To do it correctly, you have to meet or exceed the factory specs.

cool ur jets turbo im a grasshopper and i'm still trying to hop on grass. i'll run to lowes and get some krylon weld thru primer and coat it b4 i weld,then i'll weld/grind, condition the metal, por15 and then rubberized conditioner. sound good?

I don't know if krylon makes a weld through primer. You can buy it from an autobody store or I bet Napa sells it.

That said, I had problems with weld through primers. I couldn't strike an arc. And when I finally did, it just burned it all up anyway. I ended up using good, clean bare metal with a very small overlap - say 1/8" - and welded it in 1 inch sections back up to each weld. With such a small overlap it was basically consumed by the weld. I then painted over it with rustoleum.

If I was doing a car over again, I still wouldn't use weld-through primer. I would however, strip the car as completely as possible and use an epoxy primer.

^^^ Gotta know how to use weld-through primer correctly. :D

Indeed you won't get an arc if you tap it on an area that still has primer on it. Weld through primer is only used when overlapping metal (butt welds & spot welds) because there will still be bare metal on the inside touching surfaces. Then on the areas to weld (outside edge of the butt weld / spot weld areas) you need to make sure the metal is clean & bare (just like all welding).

So... the only area that should have primer on it is the inside unseen areas... when you weld, the primer will heat up & expand, then contract & cover the weld when cooling... thus protecting the metal. :D

hey will black silicone caulk be good for re-sealing the interior? I'm gonna go to lowes in a minute if it is...I get my por-15 and metal ready tomorrow hopefully. I only got 12 oz of por 15 and 8 oz of metal ready and it came with 8 oz of marine clean...who needs that?

alright negroids i got some shazzalazz crackin and it was really intense. I had por fumes, weld fumes and chew buzzin in my head and i thought i was going to die. but I got this far. wow the old metal burns holes after like 3 or 4 welds, I learned that lesson the hard way. Tell me what you think, it looks ugly in the pictures but I ground it smooth as a baby's butt and it's all por'd now. It does look like some have holes but I haven't taken pictures of the final product.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Photo-0343.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Photo-0345.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Photo-0346.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Photo-0347.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Photo-0352.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Photo-0354.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Photo-0355.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Photo-0348.jpg

What kind of welder do you have and what size wire are you using?

Smaller wire = less heat needed = less chance of burning holes in 25 year old sheet metal.

A good MIG with good voltage control is also very usefull.

the only welder I have has the worst possible wire for this metal: .03" and its flux core so not only does it make holes but it spatters the )$@(# out of everything. But it's doing the job...

I think it looks great. As you get used to the flux core you'll be able to control its tendency to burn through. Keep it up, from here it looks like a quality repair.

I agree. Its looks good, and dont get to close with the tip of the welder.

so what kind of of welder would be be ideal for repair on a car? just wondering cause thats what im going to invest my stimulus on or im thinking about a cup gun. not sure yet.

Mother f**k! SEARCH! We have like 3 freaking threads on what welder to buy / use. :075:

ok i'll do that but would you recommend a welder or cup gun/comp? so i know which one to buy first.

welder. Just use the search button and go to hybridz I was at the same spot you were, if not worse about a month ago, but you have to have some motivation, hard work, and patience and you can weld as easy as you can glue paper. But much much much much harder. Here's today's updaate

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Photo-0367.jpg
Metal Ready
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Photo-0368.jpg
SG Black Por-15

A cup gun? You mean one of these paint guns???

#1: They suck... buy a gravity feed.
#2: Welders and paint guns are two different things. Why are you asking which to buy first?

http://www.hvlp.com/images/guns/a5510_lg.jpg

wow!!!! whys there so much body work getting done around here?

wow... sorry i dont know my months... this was like 2 F'ing months ago... but it is quite interesting...:disgust:

well while im here....is alkyd metal primer by sherwin wiliams any good for bodywork purposes? it says its for industrial and marine purposes.... ill get a pic tomarrow... plez help me pick with your body shop expertise!!!:D

Well since we're talking about rust, check out my awesome rust repair on my 300ZX. The car was pretty much rust free, or so I thought until I looked under the tool kit. Spare tire well, and everywhere else is super clean, frame rails are clean and aren't mangled, rockers are good, inside of fenders, inside of quarter panels, everything is clean except this...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...x/DSC00508.jpg

Looks like the previous owner or the guy before that, got a little carried away with a rust reformer, por or something. use of PB Blaster and Liquid Wrench has managed to turn the rust proofing, coating, whatever it is into a sticky/semi-hardened goop. Anyway a lot of scraping and cleaning I found out that the base metal for the hatch was still in good shape. So here's halfway done.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...x/DSC00515.jpg

Hopefully tomorrow the other half will be cleaned and painted. I'm awaiting my new Fuel Door/Hatch release arm to come. The old one is all rusted over and doesn't move too smoothly. Man one quart of rustoleum and some mineral spirits goes along way. That rustoleum is some tough stuff. I can't wait to get this all cleaned up and done so I can sleep easier.

I so need to learn how to do body work. I wish the holes in my pans were that small.

this is that alkyd metal primer i was talking about
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...2/DSCN2226.jpg
i tseted on a old piece of metal and this is how it looks after it has dried and i sanded it(it seems to sand good and dosent act a bit like latex)
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...2/DSCN2227.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...2/DSCN2228.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...2/DSCN2229.jpg