Philbert

Hi guys - wasn't sure where to post this so if it's in the wrong spot, sorry.



I have a 1980 Datsun 280ZX and it has some bubbling rust around the windshield (common for Z cars, I know....). Recently, I got a crack in the windshield, and figured now was a good a time as any to address the rust while I replace the windshield.



I've since removed the windshield (thanks to a handy harbor freight tool), and used a wire wheel (again, harbor freight) to remove the caulk, and some of the heavy rust - I basically ran the wire wheel around the immediate area where there was rust, exposing the bare sheet metal below so I could expose the rust areas and address them 100%.



Here is where I am at:






This spot above the driver's side actually had a hole (I think the wire wheel did this, but the metal was pretty weakened by rust):






And here, in the same area, on the roof part, you can see where I used the wire wheel to isolate the rust and expose the bare metal (non rusted) around it:

http://i1317.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5d37bfc8.jpg





And the other bad part, the cowl, has quite a bit of rust - I also used the wire wheel to expose it down the bare metal around the rusted area:







Here's a smaller area that wasn't so bad, but I used the wire wheel to expose the bare metal around the rusted part:



You can see the dash is in bad shape - I actually took it out a couple years back and refinished it...but it cracked a few weeks later - plan is to sand it and use fiberglass to cover it up, retexture, and paint, while the window is out:







This is my first time taking a window out, let alone dealing with rust and primer/sanding/body paint, so I'm looking for some advice. The plan is to have the new window professionally installed once I have it the way I want it.



Here's what I'm thinking:

1) Use wire wheel/sandpaper to get the rust areas completely down to bare metal

2) for the rust area with the hole, sand it down to bare metal and use JB weld to fill in the hole - sand smooth when dry

3) (wet?) sand edges of bare metal where it meets body paint to make it uniform and smooth

4) prime (can I use a small brush instead of spray?) the bare metal areas

5) paint with factory paint from dealer the areas I primed

6) Affix the OEM plastic snap strips along the top and bottom of the windshield for the chrome trim (after the window is in)

7) take it to the window guy and ask him to take care not to goo up the snap strips for hte chrome trim





Does that sound like the right approach?

Oh, and how do I get the plastic trim piece off that runs along the top of the headliner where it meets the windshield? It's brittle and I don't want to break it....


Any tips on prep work, wet sanding, what primer to use, techniques for brush painting/sanding to get the smoothest transitions?



Thanks in advance!

ricksilvia

I deal with rust very often at work. I would recommend rough sanding all the rust areas down as best as possible and applying a rust inhibitor/converter like ospho. For the hole i would use Belzona much better the JB weld and you can pick out the exact type you need for your application. prime.prime.prime.lightsand.prime.paint lol

Philbert

Thanks Rick - I was just revisiting this thread while searching for some more tips on how to remove the headliner trim in front of the rear view mirror....

The Ospho stuff is pretty well reviewed on Amazon:


Regarding how to best attack/prepare this, this is my first time doing body work/paint - If it's not perfect, I'm OK with that, but want to do it the right way, as much as possible.


I have a 4.5 inch angle grinder and wire wheel - what I used to get to where I am at now. What would you recommend for rough sanding these areas, like you mention? Continued wire wheel or actual rough sandpaper (using my gloved hand or a block)? Should I use wet sanding, or save that for when I'm painting?

And as far as application goes, would you recommend for the Ospho stuff to use a cheapo paint brush, or Q tip, or something else?

Belzona looks like high grade stuff:
Belzona 1111 (Super Metal) - Epoxy-based composite for metal repair
Their closest distributor is not too far from me....is it sold in other places you know of?
Norcal Molecular
3241 Monument Way, Unit G
Concord, CA, 94518, United States
Telephone: (925) 798-5200
Fax: (925) 798-5335


And, for priming, what would you recommend, and how to best apply it (brush versus spray)? You say light sand, prime, light sand, prime, prime, paint - that makes sense to me

I really would like to know how to get that trim peice off intact before I dive more into that area with the hole...anyone??

ricksilvia

As far as the trim piece I haven't removed one before ill take a look at my parts car and see. Some low grit and high grit emery cloth applyed by hand should do the job of removing the paint/rust in the areas where the wheel can not reach. It can be used wet or dry. When using the wire wheel make sure your not removing more metal then nessasary. I can't spell. I would apply the ospho with a small foam brush as if you were painting. I would order the belzona online. As far as primer just go to autozone and find some good sand able primer. Spary it sand it. Makes a good smooth level surface. Get a can of regular primer spray it. The find you finishing paint spray it. Clear coat if applicable

Philbert

Thanks Rick! Will report back on progress

Philbert

So I called Norcal molecular (the Belzona distributor) and talked to a nice lady, who guided me to get thier 1221super emetal - enough for 4 cubic inches (more than I need probably). This stuff cures in minutes, is sandable, and costs $54 (!). The 1111 product was like $250 and came in a much larger batch - yowza!

I was calling around to my local auto parts stores about Ospho since I don't want to pay shipping on Amazon if I don't have to, and they don't have it. They said that Naval Jelly was the same thing - and I have that at home - but is it?? I use it for garden shears and other stuff around the house and rinse with water after - but the Osho stuff is different isn't it? Or is it? Would I still need to rinse with water (dab with sponge - don't want to get water in my headliner/etc)?

The rest of the steps I think I have covered, thanks

FricFrac

Phosphoric acid. They also use Tannic acid to treat rust. You can also get a sand blasting gun for cheap and the media is cheap as well - best way to get rid of rust as it will get into the pores where the wire wheel won't go. After that I treat it with POR 15 to convert the rust and seal it as well then primer over top. The acid is a metal prep but doesn't actually seal the metal like the POR-15 and a lot of primers are not sealers although once you get the paint on it's pretty much sealed.

Philbert

Thanks FricFrac - did some research on the Jelly too today. So, I just coated some of the rust areas with the Jelly I have (using gloves!) and will let it sit for a little before dabbing off with a water dampened rag. I'll see how that goes.

Also plan on getting emory paper to try and get into those pores some more.

I like the idea of using POR15 to seal - would I do that BEFORE I apply the Belzona stuff I ordered today (to fill in the hole I have)?. Is POR 15 sandable?

SHADY280

i like por15 as well. have used it with great success. i have a spot blaster one of which has a bag on it where it recirculates the sand so it doesnt blow everywhere. also i would use a rust converter after that,that hole filler, then a por15 primer then por15 then a light sand then high build primer and paint. you will never have to think about rust there again

Philbert

Update - I was able to get the trim piece above the windshield off without breaking it. I wanted to get this off so I could check for rust underneath the top clip.

Here's how (since I had to search a lot to figure it out):

I removed the 2 trim pieces above the door glass - just pulled off.

I removed the screws for the visors

I removed the 2 "oh snap!" handles from the rear (2+2 model)

I removed the rear panel just before the hatch

I removed the screw in the center dome light.

After all this, I could tug the entire unit back about 1/2 inch to an inch, and pull it out from the plastic trim above the windshield - then I unscrewed the 4 screws there and ta-da - it's out!

Good news is there is ZERO rust under there!


While I was at it, I wire brushed and treated the rust areas once more with Naval Jelly, after going over it all with Acetone.

Plan next is to:
- clean the Jelly residue out again
- hand sand the black "converted" spots down some more
- treat with acetone to clean
- treat with POR 15 (need to get some still)
- sand/acetone
- use metal filler for large hole, and pitted areas
- sand smooth
- acetone and POR 15 again
- prime/sand/prime/paint

I wonder if the dealer sells "Satin Blue Metallic" touch up paint? I also wonder if it will match after all these years

cali260Z

You can also use vinegar/water to eradicate the rust and it works like a charm 1 part vinegar 3 parts water use it on the rusted areas or use it on whole stripped down to metal areas. apply with paper towels let sit for 15 30 minutes and when the metal turns an orange/yellow its ready to to come off. just use regular cold water and rub it out til the metal is clean and grey.......its the best thing since sliced bread and IT WORKS. Theres a few videos up the youtube look up>>>my friend Pete<<< he's an old school autobody guy out of texas. Great tips and tricks that the pros use

cali260Z

heres a few of what mine looked like