RB20DET vs V8
10-29-2001, 07:24 PM
#1
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RB20DET vs V8
I was thinking of an engine swap, and I cannot decide. A turbo L28 is out of the question, as there are none in australia. So i think that the skyline enigne is the trick. I was wondering what extra is need on top off the engine, fuel pump, ignition etc. I think my uncle and i can do most of the work, or would a V8 be easier? any thoughts, comments appreciated. thanks.
10-29-2001, 08:12 PM
#2
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Re: RB20DET vs V8
price is an problem. both would be expensive but wat would be more expensive in the long run, engine rebuild etc...
I heard someone say that the Rb swap was just a swap over, but i do not believe that this is true, but i could be wrong.
What do you want.. a V8 or a inline 6 turbo.. if your going for a Rb a better option would be ther Rb26dett, but also considering your funds, also a LS1 chev 350, from any v8 commodore vt SS, with fuel injection...
ww.hybridz.org you can asked alot of questions there, a SBC swap you can get the JTR mounts, for everything, but i don't know about the steering colum considering US cars are LHD and aus cars are RHD...
and also you can get mounts made up for the RB.. or make them yourself, and get a custom driveshaft also... but the main problem i would be lookin at would be the electrics, and weight,
carbed for V8, or injection, with the RB theres only injection..
its up to you...
<font color=blue>76 260z</font color=blue>
The NiteRider
I heard someone say that the Rb swap was just a swap over, but i do not believe that this is true, but i could be wrong.
What do you want.. a V8 or a inline 6 turbo.. if your going for a Rb a better option would be ther Rb26dett, but also considering your funds, also a LS1 chev 350, from any v8 commodore vt SS, with fuel injection...
ww.hybridz.org you can asked alot of questions there, a SBC swap you can get the JTR mounts, for everything, but i don't know about the steering colum considering US cars are LHD and aus cars are RHD...
and also you can get mounts made up for the RB.. or make them yourself, and get a custom driveshaft also... but the main problem i would be lookin at would be the electrics, and weight,
carbed for V8, or injection, with the RB theres only injection..
its up to you...
<font color=blue>76 260z</font color=blue>
The NiteRider
10-30-2001, 04:26 AM
#3
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What U need.
You will need about 6 grand for the swap. You will need the wiring loom a gearbox, computer, turbo, ignition system. I have already considered the swap before. I am told the RB engines all have the same engine mounts as the L series engines.
I would go for RB30 though it's got more development potential.
Anyway Zya
Gavin,
1973 Datsun -=240z=-
1975 Datsun -=260z=- (Totaled by WRX)
I would go for RB30 though it's got more development potential.
Anyway Zya
Gavin,
1973 Datsun -=240z=-
1975 Datsun -=260z=- (Totaled by WRX)
10-30-2001, 10:27 PM
#4
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Re: RB20DET
I heard that the RB20DET has good midfying ability, as with a simple exhaust and manifold, intake and mild boose increase you can get good power outputs. I don't know much about the RB30et, i heard they are form the older skylines and commodores. I wouldn't really want to modify the engine that much after installed anyway, and the rb20det is the cheapest, so i think that is the way to go.
10-31-2001, 01:14 AM
#7
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Re: RB20DET
yer gav (240z) thats right, the mounts fit in but it is to forward and high to get the most potential from it, handleing wise
ummm
www.japanesemotorsport.com.au has got half cuts they are in adelaide if i remember correctly, you can get good quality half cuts from them
do you think that you need to have a engineers certificate if you use the original engine mounts .. in melb i thinking, cause i read the form at vic roads today and it said that only needs a engneers certificate if anything has been fabricated.
<font color=blue>76 260z</font color=blue>
The NiteRider
ummm
www.japanesemotorsport.com.au has got half cuts they are in adelaide if i remember correctly, you can get good quality half cuts from them
do you think that you need to have a engineers certificate if you use the original engine mounts .. in melb i thinking, cause i read the form at vic roads today and it said that only needs a engneers certificate if anything has been fabricated.
<font color=blue>76 260z</font color=blue>
The NiteRider
10-31-2001, 07:51 PM
#9
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Re: RB20DET
The RB25DET has a different but stronger gearbox and tend to be a lot more expensive to buy. They also have a better factory turbo than the RB20DET. In stock form they do make more Kw (20-30kw more) but I have seen plenty of stock GT25-T skylines with less rear wheel hp than a GTS-T.
It all depends on engine condition - everything from AFMs to injectors, compression, boost etc.
There are plenty of RB20DET making in excess of 140 rear wheel kw. 200kw at the wheels is possible with careful but not too extreme mods.
Go to http://www.skylinesdownunder.com to read about Skylines and the RB engines.
I would go for the RB20DET because it is cheaper, very responsive to mods and the gearbox is narrower (I think).
Just for interests sakes I have a RB25DE in my Skyline and it makes 96kw at the wheels and there are heaps of RB20DETs on the road that only muster 110kw at the wheels.
My Skyline is at this link.
http://skylinesdownunder.com/profile..._ak_gts25.html
I also have a 240z and think a worked RB25DE would be a lot of fun as it could probably get to 110kw quite easily, makes a great sound and would not have the weight or complexity associated with a turbo. Not as fast for sure but would look pretty cool with individual throttle bodies on a cross flow head. An RB30 block with RB25DE head would also be fun..........hmmmmm where is my credit card.
Cheers
Glenn
It all depends on engine condition - everything from AFMs to injectors, compression, boost etc.
There are plenty of RB20DET making in excess of 140 rear wheel kw. 200kw at the wheels is possible with careful but not too extreme mods.
Go to http://www.skylinesdownunder.com to read about Skylines and the RB engines.
I would go for the RB20DET because it is cheaper, very responsive to mods and the gearbox is narrower (I think).
Just for interests sakes I have a RB25DE in my Skyline and it makes 96kw at the wheels and there are heaps of RB20DETs on the road that only muster 110kw at the wheels.
My Skyline is at this link.
http://skylinesdownunder.com/profile..._ak_gts25.html
I also have a 240z and think a worked RB25DE would be a lot of fun as it could probably get to 110kw quite easily, makes a great sound and would not have the weight or complexity associated with a turbo. Not as fast for sure but would look pretty cool with individual throttle bodies on a cross flow head. An RB30 block with RB25DE head would also be fun..........hmmmmm where is my credit card.
Cheers
Glenn
11-01-2001, 06:09 AM
#11
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Re: RB20DET
The RB20DET with ECCS (with the grey cam cover from the R32/33/Cefiro etc)is rated @ 160kW. The RB25DE w/VVC is 147kW & the RB25DET is 187kW. The NEO RB25DET is 206kW.
My 240?? well used to have custom L24 turbo, good for 115kW @ 12psi (turbo too big) now it's getting an L28 taken out to 3.1L with twin T25 turbos. (under construction)
My daily driver?? custom L28ET in my MR30 Skyline.
6psi ~120kW thru modified 3-speed auto
My dads 240?? RB25DE - still under construction.
My dads 510?? FJ20DE - 216km/h, 7000rpm, 4th gear, main straight, Mallala Raceway.
The long-run cheapest & most reliable would be the RB series, but you will need custom mounts (eng & g'box) & tailshaft. There are plenty of places around that can help with the swap. Where are you?
Ben
Adelaide, Sth Australia
IZCC#1902
Working on the R31 Turbo brake conversion for my MR30...
PS the RB26DETT 4x4 has been done..... but you could always change the sump & g'box to make it rwd only.
My 240?? well used to have custom L24 turbo, good for 115kW @ 12psi (turbo too big) now it's getting an L28 taken out to 3.1L with twin T25 turbos. (under construction)
My daily driver?? custom L28ET in my MR30 Skyline.
6psi ~120kW thru modified 3-speed auto
My dads 240?? RB25DE - still under construction.
My dads 510?? FJ20DE - 216km/h, 7000rpm, 4th gear, main straight, Mallala Raceway.
The long-run cheapest & most reliable would be the RB series, but you will need custom mounts (eng & g'box) & tailshaft. There are plenty of places around that can help with the swap. Where are you?
Ben
Adelaide, Sth Australia
IZCC#1902
Working on the R31 Turbo brake conversion for my MR30...
PS the RB26DETT 4x4 has been done..... but you could always change the sump & g'box to make it rwd only.
11-01-2001, 10:00 PM
#12
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Re: RB20DET
I'm in adelaide as well, I'm starting to sway towards the 1JZ-GTE from the supra (sorry to all the nissan purists), but for $450 more the the RB20DET I get just under 70hp more. The editor of HOT4s magazine has done this swap, and it is pretty tempting. I want to do most of the work myself (with help from uncle who knows his stuff), to save money. Sounds like your family likes datsuns, can't balme them. It wouldn't be difficult to make custom mounts would it? Would the orignal driveshaft from the 240z fit? I'm thinking of getting the enigne from japanese motorsports, they sell packages with engine/gearbox/electrics- I'm not sure if this includes intercooler. Your up and coming L28 sounds pretty sweet!
11-02-2001, 05:28 AM
#13
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Re: RB20DET
Check out Zoom & speak to Craig Williams @ MadDat on 0412160025 re: the conversion. Also speak with Darren Masters @ Jaustech (a Datsun fan even though he races GTR Famillias) re: getting the hardware (http://www.jaustech.com.au).
The 7MGTE is cheaper still & has plenty of grunt too...
You will need to liase w/Regency on this one, which is part of the reason why I'm sticking to the L-series - minimal legal/ADR hassles.
The 7MGTE is cheaper still & has plenty of grunt too...
You will need to liase w/Regency on this one, which is part of the reason why I'm sticking to the L-series - minimal legal/ADR hassles.
11-02-2001, 05:17 PM
#14
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Re: RB20DET
What's regency? I think the 1jz-gte is cheaper at japanese motorsport (www.japanesemotorsport.com.au)- I'm thinking of getting a 240z that has been built up from the bare shell that has an L28 in it, i'll probably keep the L28 if it comes with one, but I would really like a turbo six.
11-02-2001, 08:14 PM
#15
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Re: RB20DET
Transport SA - Kateena Street Regency Park. That's where you have to present your car for inspection after you've done major mods or been defected.
Who's got the recon'd 240 your looking at?
You should also speak to Peter Hall, he can build a mean L6 - he races his 240 in Historic Class & his son David has a 300HP 240Z rally car.
Who's got the recon'd 240 your looking at?
You should also speak to Peter Hall, he can build a mean L6 - he races his 240 in Historic Class & his son David has a 300HP 240Z rally car.
11-02-2001, 09:54 PM
#16
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Re: RB20DET
Just reading this thread.. couple things to think about..
Are you wanting to get this car road worthy? Cause the RB is gonna give you hella troubles.. as you're going to need much better brakes.. and if you've got stock Zed wheels.. that means bigger wheels will be in order as well.. If you live in adeliade, check out www.japanesemotorsport.com.au.. they import engines from Japan, and have lots of nice front cut nissan engines.. I was contemplating a RB20det.. and most people have said for the money it will cost to get on the road, i'll be unhappy with the performance, and that I should go a 2.5 litre, which would have very nice results! Another thing to think about is the plenum chamber.. unless some serious engine bay fabrication is done.. the plenum chamber is going to be high up enough, that you wont be able to close your bonnet.. Also if you really do want to go the L28 turbo, which is a really nice engine.. just check around at some importers.. and since you live in adelaide.. give japanese motor sports a visit for sure, they've got some awesome stuff.
Just my two cents, cheers
Will - Arch - www.ZeroUnited.com
Are you wanting to get this car road worthy? Cause the RB is gonna give you hella troubles.. as you're going to need much better brakes.. and if you've got stock Zed wheels.. that means bigger wheels will be in order as well.. If you live in adeliade, check out www.japanesemotorsport.com.au.. they import engines from Japan, and have lots of nice front cut nissan engines.. I was contemplating a RB20det.. and most people have said for the money it will cost to get on the road, i'll be unhappy with the performance, and that I should go a 2.5 litre, which would have very nice results! Another thing to think about is the plenum chamber.. unless some serious engine bay fabrication is done.. the plenum chamber is going to be high up enough, that you wont be able to close your bonnet.. Also if you really do want to go the L28 turbo, which is a really nice engine.. just check around at some importers.. and since you live in adelaide.. give japanese motor sports a visit for sure, they've got some awesome stuff.
Just my two cents, cheers
Will - Arch - www.ZeroUnited.com
11-02-2001, 11:25 PM
#17
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Re: RB20DET
yeah, things like brakes and getting it right for the engineering certificate would cost alot of money. The guy's 240z i was looking at Kevin Bell's. I really would like to put a late turbo six in it, but i have hardly any money, so will probably have to wait. I don't know though, as my uncle is pretty nifty with things like this, so he could help me do most of the stuff.
11-03-2001, 12:37 AM
#18
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Re: RB20DET
Sounds like you should by a solid 240 with a good shell & take it from there. Go the suspension & brake upgrades with whatever L-block it comes with.
You have the advantage of owning a car that only has to comply with a few ADR's. So as far as pollution controls are concerned, you only have to maintain less than 5% CO at idle & have a functioning PCV system. There ARE restrictions, but you can modify the engine quite a lot & have no legal problems.
One of my 240's came with a bone stock L28 with the early SU's & a 3-speed auto. It would put a 5.0L Commodore to shame in the traffic light dash with its 0-100 in ~7 seconds.
IMHO you should go for a clean manual 240 & work up to the twin-cam turbo, there is a lot of fun in these cars when they are in well-kept original condition.
You have the advantage of owning a car that only has to comply with a few ADR's. So as far as pollution controls are concerned, you only have to maintain less than 5% CO at idle & have a functioning PCV system. There ARE restrictions, but you can modify the engine quite a lot & have no legal problems.
One of my 240's came with a bone stock L28 with the early SU's & a 3-speed auto. It would put a 5.0L Commodore to shame in the traffic light dash with its 0-100 in ~7 seconds.
IMHO you should go for a clean manual 240 & work up to the twin-cam turbo, there is a lot of fun in these cars when they are in well-kept original condition.
11-05-2001, 03:32 AM
#20
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Re: RB20DET
Well, where do I start...
It really depends on what the engine is like in the car when you get it - and what engine is in the car!!
If it's a manual L28 in good condition with early round-top SU's then you are looking at a pretty good package already.
I'd then be spending my money on handling & then saving up for the RB25DET or VH4x V8 conversion :-).
I plan on doing a 260Z 2+2 convertible with a Nissan V8 within the next couple of years - mainly for cruising down the esplanade etc...
But I digress....
At the end of the day it depends on your tastes. Do you want a cammy NA L-series, a late model Turbo 6 or a Chev/Ford/Toyota/Nissan V8?? Realistically you will probably spend the same amount of money on any of them.
I have put over $30,000 into my 240Z & it is pretty much an empty shell at this point.
Admittedly that value includes the purchase of the car & the 2.4L turbo motor that I ran for a year. Some of the bits from the car are now in my Skyline (the E6A ECU for example) & I sold the TO4 - only to buy 1xT3 & 2xT25's.
Remember, performance is money - how fast do you want to go?
Ben
IZCC#1902
http://www.versadev.com/ben
It really depends on what the engine is like in the car when you get it - and what engine is in the car!!
If it's a manual L28 in good condition with early round-top SU's then you are looking at a pretty good package already.
I'd then be spending my money on handling & then saving up for the RB25DET or VH4x V8 conversion :-).
I plan on doing a 260Z 2+2 convertible with a Nissan V8 within the next couple of years - mainly for cruising down the esplanade etc...
But I digress....
At the end of the day it depends on your tastes. Do you want a cammy NA L-series, a late model Turbo 6 or a Chev/Ford/Toyota/Nissan V8?? Realistically you will probably spend the same amount of money on any of them.
I have put over $30,000 into my 240Z & it is pretty much an empty shell at this point.
Admittedly that value includes the purchase of the car & the 2.4L turbo motor that I ran for a year. Some of the bits from the car are now in my Skyline (the E6A ECU for example) & I sold the TO4 - only to buy 1xT3 & 2xT25's.
Remember, performance is money - how fast do you want to go?
Ben
IZCC#1902
http://www.versadev.com/ben
11-05-2001, 06:23 AM
#21
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Re: RB20DET
yer thats another question u want urself to answer....
do u want it as a weekend car, that u can drive around on a saturday night with ur wife/girlfriend and beat HSV GTS or something like that... or u want a good weekend racer for sprints and stuff like that
if its just a street car, u want to think of how much HP/KW u think you need as a daily driver... maybe a turbo would be the go during the week turn down the boost, and on weekends up the boost for that racing...
<font color=blue>76 260z</font color=blue>
The NiteRider
do u want it as a weekend car, that u can drive around on a saturday night with ur wife/girlfriend and beat HSV GTS or something like that... or u want a good weekend racer for sprints and stuff like that
if its just a street car, u want to think of how much HP/KW u think you need as a daily driver... maybe a turbo would be the go during the week turn down the boost, and on weekends up the boost for that racing...
<font color=blue>76 260z</font color=blue>
The NiteRider
11-05-2001, 03:06 PM
#22
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Re: RB20DET
it will be my daily driver, as it will be my only car, except for my parents car which i am not allowed to drive often. What i really want is a car that;s quick of the mark, fun to drive and i can take racing everynow and then (not serious racing, just track days).
11-14-2001, 01:07 AM
#24
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Re: RB20DET
The 202 is the six used in the Kingswoods & the 253 is the Aussie V8. Both pretty ordinary engines I wouldn't even bother considering.
The other consideration is getting it registered & geting a fitting kit - the parts aren't that abundant down here.
I would love a V8 240, but it would have to be the Infiniti of Lexus powerplant under the bonnet.
The other consideration is getting it registered & geting a fitting kit - the parts aren't that abundant down here.
I would love a V8 240, but it would have to be the Infiniti of Lexus powerplant under the bonnet.
11-14-2001, 02:04 AM
#25
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Re: RB20DET
you could look at a LS1... 350 chev.. from i think any VT SS V8 and VX SS V8, i not sure but i think the LT1 came in the VR VS SS v8... that is a crayz motor... maybe the 302... or something like that isn't that harsh on fuel, but wouldn't be as good with fuel with a Rb25det...
personally i'll be going towards a 302 or 350... i know you can get mounts for a T5 gearbox, and a 350 chev from jags that run, and alot of information is at hybridz.org... more than enough information there, but my main concern is being the differance witht the american cars being LHD and us being RHD and anything hitting the steering shaft.... with the v8...
you can always get mounts made up, by a good machine shop as you would have to do for a Rb or a V8...
it will be just as hard to register/ get a RW with a V8 as a Rb engine, even thou it still has the same cylinders...
its really up to you on what you choose, there is alot of support base in the US for V8 swaps into Z's, and there is some suport for Rb swaps in australia, with the engine not being that rare here... i know some Z shops in sydney made RB conversions, also a shop in perth... but if you are going to do it yourself it will be cheaper and you will have more pride in your work,...
<font color=blue>76 260z</font color=blue>
The NiteRider
personally i'll be going towards a 302 or 350... i know you can get mounts for a T5 gearbox, and a 350 chev from jags that run, and alot of information is at hybridz.org... more than enough information there, but my main concern is being the differance witht the american cars being LHD and us being RHD and anything hitting the steering shaft.... with the v8...
you can always get mounts made up, by a good machine shop as you would have to do for a Rb or a V8...
it will be just as hard to register/ get a RW with a V8 as a Rb engine, even thou it still has the same cylinders...
its really up to you on what you choose, there is alot of support base in the US for V8 swaps into Z's, and there is some suport for Rb swaps in australia, with the engine not being that rare here... i know some Z shops in sydney made RB conversions, also a shop in perth... but if you are going to do it yourself it will be cheaper and you will have more pride in your work,...
<font color=blue>76 260z</font color=blue>
The NiteRider
