FP BMW suspension
Does anyone know if the really fast FP BMW uses the double balljoint lower suspension?
I have been playing with this a little in susprog and found it has some interesting ackerman characteristics. It gains ackerman as you steer it. The next question would be is this legal to do to a prepared car? I'm not really sure reading the rules. I had intended to try something like this on my car but I can't get it all to fit in my little 13 inch wheels. Cary |
I'm not sure if Chris Cox's M3 has double balljoints, but it would be legal. Here's the rule:
1. Original suspension control arms may be reinforced, modified, or replaced with components of unrestricted origin. I can try and take a look in September when I see him again... Tom |
Thanks Tom, I wasn't sure you could get away with changing the connection at the bottom.
I watched a fast stock BMW the some time ago and climbed underneath and saw the double ball joints. I figured there had to be a reason why BMW did that and played a bit with it on susprog. It seems like it might be an interesting upgrade to our older cars. Unfortunately I can't use it because I don't seem to have enough room. Personal problem using little 13 inch wheels full of brake. But for you big wheel guys this might be something to think about. It gains ackerman the more you turn it with a front steer rack. Cary |
Sounds interesting, but if all you're gaining is ackerman, and you don't have the room, why not move the steering rack closer to centerline? Would you acheive more ackerman the other way?
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Originally Posted by preith
Sounds interesting, but if all you're gaining is ackerman, and you don't have the room, why not move the steering rack closer to centerline? Would you acheive more ackerman the other way?
Some of this was thinking what I could do if I intended to keep racing my current car. In order to get to 100 percent ackerman (or more), which I can't get by moving the rack and/or the steering arms. To make matters worse with the 13s the steering arm and wheel want to share the same space. For my EMOD car I fixed the problem by moving the rack up towards the top of the wheel. I can move the steering arm out more and it gets more advantage with the steering axis inclination. The double ballljoint looks like you can get 100 percent without having to get too creative with moving the rack and it also has other interesting features. By playing with where the balljoints fall it can increase caster as you turn and change pin lead. I'm convinced it is part if why those BMWs are so fast. Perhaps I'm wrong. Have you measured your car at all? I find that with the comp quicksteer knuckles I have almost parallel steering. I run a lot of toe out to compensate but the tires take a beating. Even moving the rack would probably help but it seemed like 60 percent was the max figure that I could get from the rack and knuckles being moved -- until I discovered the wheel problem. I need to find my notes to make sure that is correct. I'm not sure what just moving the rack would give for an ackerman percentage. Cary |
Originally Posted by tube80z
Have you measured your car at all? I find that with the comp quicksteer knuckles I have almost parallel steering. I run a lot of toe out to compensate but the tires take a beating. Even moving the rack would probably help but it seemed like 60 percent was the max figure that I could get from the rack and knuckles being moved -- until I discovered the wheel problem. I need to find my notes to make sure that is correct. I'm not sure what just moving the rack would give for an ackerman percentage.
Cary |
What's a double balljoint lower suspension?
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Originally Posted by jburge01
What's a double balljoint lower suspension?
The only reason I started looking at it was the performance of the BMWs and my realization that in autocross steering performance is a major performance factor. So for us things like scrub, SIA, pin lead, caster, etc. are all very important. Or said more simply -- how to go faster :-) Cary |
Any photos of the BMW setup?
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Originally Posted by preith
Any photos of the BMW setup?
Cary |
Oh. I get it now. It's a type of 4 bar linkage. I was thinking the ball joints were stacked or something. Interesting.
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