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VTC Gears?
Alright, so the Z went into the mechanic for the timing belt change (which includes water pump, etc.). I asked them to diagnose the lifter tick-esque noise we're hearing (which occasionally will go away with revs and often won't). They called me back today and said its the VTC (Variable Valve Timing, right?) gears. Apparently 'they are loose enough to be advanced by hand and cost $430 apiece' to replace. Naturally we need two. He claims the noise of these can often emulate lifer tick. Any opinions?
Ezra |
my friend had that ticking noise, it's the loudest right when you turn it on right?
When he had the belts replaced the noise wouldn't go away so he took it back and the VTC spring was shot. So he had th VTC spring replaced, and the noise went away. the part was like 3 bucks... |
man, sounds a lot like it. I'm gonnah have a helluva time trying to convince this guy it may be that. I know its a long shot but have you got a part # on that spring
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nope he said they're not rebuildable. I know his manager, if hes lying I'm getting his butt fired.
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Part Number: 13072-45V20
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Well Z1 sells 'em for $1.73. and you need two of em'
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it's the VTC springs, not the gears.
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I really hate dealerships... I'm replacing the springs on my own.
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its four bolts and an upper timming belt cover, to replace them, should take no more then an hour to do them all...
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anyone got the part # of the orings?
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just go to the local hardware store, bring the old o-rings and they will get new ones the same size, or if you can get me the sizes i can send you the correct ones...
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The springs should have been replaced when the t-belt was last done. when was the t-belt last done?
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yesterday. the dealership are crooks though. They said there is play in the gears and that means you need two new VTC gears at $430 apiece. I told them about the springs (even quoted them the Part# from you guys) and they said it didn't exist and they weren't in any way rebuildable. To be honest I'm glad they didn't do it, the less time they have, and less things they fool with on that car the better.
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ez... you need to find a good mechanic that went to business on his own but used to work for the dealerships for MANY years... thats who im going to go to if i ever have to, he is certified for EVERY aspect on nissan cars since 1981 i believe and collects Z's and was well trained on teh Z32 as well, and my dad is buddies with him adn he wants to see my S30... so he is a very smart guy and the only person other than myself and maybe a few other smart people on here with my car.
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Originally Posted by ezramoore
they said it didn't exist and they weren't in any way rebuildable
If they don't exist, how could they speak to whether it's rebuildable or not? And technically, they're not rebuildable... who the hell used that word in such a context? The VTC springs are a replacement part that comes with the 60k/120k kit. Unless you have a 96, in which case you don't have VTC, you have VTC springs. For the record, I'm not saying it's impossible that there is play in your cam gears - that can happen - I'm simply saying that it's MUCH more likely that it's the springs. And considering how much less they cost, it only makes sense to replace them first and, if that doesn't solve the problem, consider spending more on gears. |
no matter how nice or honest they may seem, there always out to make a quick buck, they will even rig you car so that something else breaks in the near future, all you have to do is find a decent/reliable mechanic thats no a retard with a AA degree from the local community college..
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Thanks guys. I know the dealership are usually (always?) a bunch of jerks, but I don't have another choice. If it wasn't an interference engine I would have tried to do it myself. I've just never done a t belt change before and I didn't want to start on something like the Z. I'm gonnah learn eventually, we're doing a timing belt change on the Miata ASAP. I'll let you all know how it does.
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with a new timing belt, it's easy to do... you just line up the white (or yellow, I don't remember what color they are anymore) lines on the belt with the dots on the gears
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yeah, your right about dealers, I really didn't like taking the Z to a dealer last time I needed the belts,waterpump/tensioners replaced. Why mighte you ask? I was expectin around $450 at the most( out of my pocket), and was handed a $1600 motherfriggin' bill!!! Apparently instead of talking to me(the only # I gave them), the dealership got a hold of my parents and told the all sorts of things needed to be replaced. So I ended up having to pay $850( and no the dealer did not take me out for dinner before i got F%$@ed), and my parents took up the other half.
And I could have done that work myself. It's just I live with cenile parents that don't understand the difference between brakes and pistons. |
the dots on mine are white
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I'd imagine with DOHC and the more cramped area of the Z32 it would be more of a pain, but I've done the timing belt on the Z31 I used to have, and really it wasn't that big of a deal. Once we knew what we were doing, my friend and I were pretty much able to pull out the bumper, and everything to get to the timing belt in about a half-hour to 45 min. Yes dealers and such like to rip you off.
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Originally Posted by MikeZ
I was expectin around $450 at the most( out of my pocket), and was handed a $1600 motherfriggin' bill!!!
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pervert..... have you looked into any sort of writeups or the FSM on how to do it yet? or are you just smart like that?
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What a crock of sh*t....Find out which car that mechanic owns and piss into the driver's side window. It's just the springs.
Has anyone ever heard of a cam gear wearing out? |
Looked in the engine mechanical part of the FSM that I have PDF version. Couldn't find anything on it, only found one mention of VTC anything. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong part, wanna guide me? So far there is nothing I've not been able to find in a repair manual on the miata, but this is different.
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There are 4 screws that hold the center cap on the the VTC CAMS. Remove the screws. The spring is right there. Take out the old spring, pop in the new spring and install new o-rings, then just put it all back together.
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2nd. To elaborate a little: 4 small phillips screws on the intake cam gears. When removing the last two, apply some pressure so the covers and springs don't attack you.
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3rd, and to elaborate a little farther, you need to disconnect the PTU, CAS, & coolant temp sensors, and then remove the two upper t-belt covers.
But, don't forget, only do this after pissing in your mechanics drivers side window. :) |
Originally Posted by CanyonCarver
But, don't forget, only do this after pissing in your mechanics drivers side window. :)
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Originally Posted by 91zxtt
Has anyone ever heard of a cam gear wearing out? Ever. |
It would be almost impossible. Especially in our cars, which don't use a chain operation. How could a piece of extremely strong metal be worn out by a rubber/metal belt?
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Originally Posted by 91zxtt
What a crock of sh*t....Find out which car that mechanic owns and piss into the driver's side window. It's just the springs.
Has anyone ever heard of a cam gear wearing out? |
... and here's the kicker... if cam gears did wear out... would they tick?
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Actually, I have heard that the VTC mechanisms inside the cam gears do wear out. The cam gears don't normally get replaced when you do a rebuild, so I could believe that as a motor reaches the end of its second life, that the cam gears are pretty tired. :)
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Originally Posted by ZLover4Life
... and here's the kicker... if cam gears did wear out... would they tick?
Either way,...you still need to piss in the window. |
Originally Posted by 91zxtt
on top of that....if they do tick, and nobody is around, does it really make a sound? Quite the mind bender....
Either way,...you still need to piss in the window. |
are you asking if you can hear VTC springs when they go bad? yes
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Originally Posted by ZLover4Life
are you asking if you can hear VTC springs when they go bad? yes
I was scared there for a minute. Geez people. |
when does VTC kick in 4.5-5k rpm's??
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I think it's sooner than that, but that's just an educated guess.
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cant hear the difference until about 5k in my car..
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maybe 3k rpms, but up until 6400rpms
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NVCS = VTC
Light Load At light loads and below 6100 rpm, NVCS is OFF with the intake valves retarded. This helps to promote a smooth idle and engine stability. Medium to Heavy Load, < 6100 rpm At higher loads but lower RPM's, it is possible for air that has flowed into the cylinder to bounce back out again. This decreases volumetric efficiency and therefore an earlier valve closure is desired. So under these conditions NVCS is ON and the intake valves are advanced by 20 degrees. Doing this can increase engine torque in this range by close to 20 lb-ft. Medium to Heavy Loads, > 6100 rpm Now at higher RPM's, whereas before the problem was that air was bouncing back out through the intake port, now the problem is that not enough air has had a chance to flow in yet. In order to take advantage of inertia effects, a later valve opening is preferred, even if it is the same duration. So at high revs, NVCS is now switched OFF and the intake valves are retarded back 20 degrees to their original position. |
Now i have to ask. Is there a VTC controller? like Hondas have?
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Only the ECU, I believe.
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probably, becuase honda's uses a solenoid sorta setup that releases oil flow to activate the V-tec lifters aka letting the larger cam lobe do its work, you can controll teh solenoid, this is just computer controlled, no larger cam lobes none of that, totally different method of function.
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just get bigger cam's....
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i believe amz used to offer one. i couldnt find it tho
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