My '79 woes...Getting worse now
 

Ok so I will be as detailed as possible. It might be long and might have some grammar errors but please stick with it as I need some help before I take it in to a shop.

Feb 9
I bought my 1980 280zx 2+2 5 speed.....Wait you said 79 in the title... Yes I know I know. Long story short; someone changed the dash and door tags. The vin was for a 80 coupe. I have a 1979 2+2 5 speed.
I bought the car with out it running. All it needed was a battery, valve cover gasket, and clean out the drained gas tank. The guy was asking 1400 for her and assured me that it would start and run once those were done. He also said it was running rough. So I offered him 1000 plus 40 to tow it to me. It was mine.

Parts he put on.....
Distributer
Cap and Rotor
Wires and plugs
Water pump
Ebay fuel injectors
Cut exhaust off before cat. converter. installed a universal muffler and a 18in piece of pipe that ended about middle of the car
Feb 11-16ish
Installed battery, gasket, cleaned the tank best I could with out dropping it, and filled her up with some SeaFoam in the tank.I also changed the oil Sure enough it started and ran but ran like total dog crap. First thing I did was download the FSM for a 80 and went on a hunt for the vacuum diagrams. Finally got those straight(I think...Still not 100% sure, more like 90%). No change after that. So I hit the FSM again. I next metered out the Maf and TPS and both checked good. The TPS was a bit off so i fixed that. Took the maf out and cleaned it real good. I also put a 90 degree pipe on the exhaust to at least get it out from under the car. Did a test drive....nothing.

Now up until this point the car was running pig rich. Blue smoke and you could smell it so bad it was burning your eyes. It would run "ok" at low speeds, rpm, and throttle. I couldn't rev it past 3500 or go over 40mph and anything over 1/3 throttle and it would actually slow down. I couldn't even go a mile down the road before it would be stumbling all over itself and back fire like crazy. It sounded like a M80 going off under my car.

I then pulled out the plugs and cyl. 1,4,5,6 were normal but cyl 2,3 wer completely dry and black. According to the FSM that could be a sign of spark plug wires. so I went down bought new cap and rotor and wires and plugs. Installed all and went for a drive...NO CHANGE. Now I am getting frustrated and pissed. I needed a instrument cluster so I went to my local J/Y and got really lucky. The owner has his personal 81zxt with a rotted frame sitting on the lot. We strike up a deal for the whole car and I start pulling parts.

I check the plugs after some idling and couple miles of driving and notice 2 and 3 are the same as before. With talking to my old boss he said it sounds like injectors. Made sense to me only other thing that can affect 2 cylinders. so I replace them. No change really driving but not blackening plugs now.

Feb17-21
While talking to my neighbor about it, I mentioned that I am also loosing brake fluid but no where externally. He tells me to pop off the hose to the booster and see if fluid comes out. Would you believe it?! fluid came pouring out!!! Sweet I found my problem. I go the next day rob the master and booster(because no one sells them) of my parts car. Put it on go for a drive...some change for the better but not much. Now i start messing around and checking the timing(No light just guessing) and cant get a change. During this time I put in a Thermostat(none installed), coolant temp sensor and switch. Go for a drive....No change but hey my temp reads right now...

All along I keep telling everyone "it's going to be something stupid and simple". Well one night at about 11pm I have a "light bulb" moment. One thing I didn't check or change.....FUEL FILTER. I run out the next day get one and slap it on. Oh and the old one....nasty brown crap came out. I could tell as soon as I started it it was running better. I went for a drive and and it was running pretty good. It would still spit and sputter but it would at least go around town. It would also randomly just up and shut down for now reason but would start right back up first try. Then the fuel pump started getting real loud. I was told my pump is on it's last leg. I went and got the one off my parts car and it looked almost brand new.

Past few days.
So here is where i am at currently with the car....
She doesn't like low rpm, throttle or speeds..
Its hard to describe the sound but it sputters and pops. If you hold it at one speed it will still "pop". I'll try to post a recording. I took some tonight.
If you mash it to the floor she scoots. I got her up to 80 tonight chirping the tires through 3rd.
I'm not sure if this matters but I have read some things online. The alt doesn't always put out 14 volts. It fluctuates alot from 11 to 15-16. Sometimes it will stay around 14.
I am on my 2rd fuel filter since i changed the first one.
The fuel injector connectors on cyl 1,4,5, and 6 have been replaced and they just have the normal butt connectors on them. Is this a problem? I wouldn't think so because I am getting changes but I may be wrong.

Well I think thats about it. I'll keep this updated as I do things but next Tuesday I am taking her in. I've exhausted what I can do and I am getting pretty fried. I would appreciate any help or if someone is near me that can help out.

I appreciate any help in advance. Even if its to point me in a direction. Lets keep the grammar police to a minimum please. If you have a question about what I have wrote just ask me. I just really need some guidance and not a grammar lesson. I'm new to the Z world and I have heard they can be a giant headache.

Thanks again

there are still a few little things it could be. The Cylinder Head Temp Sensor and the Air Flow Meter. Try the CHTS first... it the most affordable of the two.

OK thanks davidjoe I'll check those out.....


UPDATE:

I went out this morning to warm it up and after a couple min of idling I saw this. It was a clean piece of concrete but that seems like a lot of black for a short time.
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/...n/IMAG0325.jpg

Never noticed this in the exhaust before. I've looked because I know you can tell a lot by what comes out the exhaust.

Here's a couple vids. Mostly it's for the sound and I hope you can hear it. It seems kind of echoes but if you have it up loud enough and really listen you can hear it.

http://s1240.beta.photobucket.com/us...O0036.mp4.html

In this one you can hear the "popping" towards the end..

http://s1240.beta.photobucket.com/us...O0037.mp4.html

MARCH 7TH UPDATE:

So I went out and was checking my EGR valve and piping. I found that the pipe is broke and hanging by a thread at the intake manifold. Now the question is; how much will this affect drivability? I know it will some but will it so much to make my car run the way it is?

UPDATE March 8....

I think I now have a bad ICM. I did the checks acoriding to the FSM. I am getting 354ohms with the pick up coil connected and disconnected. I am also getting 12v to the plug. What I am getting is the car just turns over and acts like it wants to start. The car was running(decently) last night and this morning. Then when I went out this afternoon it was running rough and I didn't even make it out of my park before it died. First few times it would start up and run terribly then die. Eventually(and where I am at now) it wont even start.

QUESTION:

Is there a way to make a turbo ICM work just to see if it will start? I have one and was thinking if it would work. It is wired up a bit differently at the coil. but I thought if I could make some jumper wires it might work.

Getting worse...Is there anyone out there.....
 

So I think I am about done with the car. Getting ready to just sell it and be done. I've had it a month now and have had running only 3 days and even then it wasn't the greatest. I've read so much crap its all running together. Not getting help from anyone also sucks. Ready to go back to subaru or toyota at least I got help. oh well I am just pissed off and frustrated.........

Ahem.

So for me, this is the first time I have seen your thread. I see that it was started almost exactly two days ago. Please keep in mind that those of us that surf this forum have jobs, families, and lives. We do not wait hand and foot on this forum, and we help others out of the kindness of our hearts.

That being said, I will work my way down from the first post.

low rpm, throttle, speed issue: sounds like a fuel problem to me, honestly. check your idle adjustment.

sputtering and popping: could easily be fuel (rich or lean), could also possibly be the shortened exhaust. I had the same problem on my bike with short exhaust.

alt: does sound like it's about to go out, this is what mine did. try also tightening the belt, it might be silently slipping, which could cause the same symptoms. a new belt might be needed, also.

fuel injector: without properly dropping the fuel tank and cleaning it, expect to run through the fuel filters. the carp in the tank has to go somewhere. might also explain the poor running (the filters don't catch everything).

butt connectors: should only be used for temporary (however, I have had mine on for about a year, but I sealed them with electrical tape)

like davidjoe said, a CHTS could make some of the forementioned symptoms, also. not too expensive.

the black stuff: what did this end up being? from the exhaust? oil? rubber? if it was from the exhaust, it could be blow through from the rich condition. it'll run out sooner or later(after she runs). also looks like some condensation might have built up and come out of the exhaust, perfectly natural. If its oil, find that leak! Rubber: not sure how that could happen.

I did not watch the vids.

The egr beingv open will cause a number of problems. If your egr was working before, now you will have reduced gas mileage. The port that runs from your exhaust header being open could cause some rough running (trust me, been there, done that). The open port on the underside of the intake can cause a vacuum leak. no bueno.

Honestly, I haven't played with the ICM too much, so I don't have much advice on this topic.

hope this helps.

Yuuup.... like Murphy said, those butt connector become corroded because the metal is copper and corrode over time. There are butt connectors on the injectors and the CHTS. You can find a connector set on ebay from one of the zdriver members. You can also try some dialectic greese, it may or may not work. It could be that multiple injectors have failed. Also, you can't forget the AFM and/or the connector to the AFM., which I don't think you've replaced. The coil could be bad, and it's relatively cheap. Anyways good luck

Thanks Murphy! I wasn't trying to be a asshat I was just really frustrated with the car. I have no intentions of selling it at this point. Most of what you said would affect it running and I was trying to address those problems until it stopped starting all together. the exhaust i think was just carbon from how it was running rich.

DavidJoe thanks too! I don't think all of them went out at one time. One or Two maybe but even then it would still start. I know because I didn't have one hooked up and started it. It ran like crap till i saw the connector staring at me. I don't even see a CHTS anywhere but maybe I am blind. I am getting more and more sure though its the ICM because of the spark issue. I am thinking less its the coil because i metered out the resistance and its within specs.
I also found out(for anyone else needing to replace it) it's actually cheaper to buy a whole distributor with ICM and vac advance on it than just buying a ICM. I find that odd.
Thanks again and sorry for the venting

i have a feeling your timing is off pretty good as well. that alone can cause a huge amount of problems. borrow a timing light and set it to about 10-15 deg. initial, not the 8 that the factory says. keep changing that filter, there is prolly alot of goo in the line and try running some fuel cleaner, injector cleaner. ecu really dont go bad to often so id think that can be ruled out for now. his car wont have the typical chts on the passanger side, its too early of a model for that. having the egr stuck open will make it not start or run at all. simply take the egr off for now and make a quick block off plate, it wont allow the transfer of exhaust gasses just to try to rectify the problem for now. this wont cause any problems unless you have emmisions nautzis there. i pass emissions testing here with no egr system at all. although they dont do a visual test.

See I WAS thinking timing but it was running and then it died and wont start. I was thinking something broke but I pulled off valve cover and everything is tight and no teeth are broke so I really dont think the timing slipped just like that. This fuel filter is brand new and hardly used. I am getting fuel to the injectors and plenty of it so I think i cant rule that out. I did remove the egr and I drove it twice with it removed. The third drive was when it quit.
Here's whats weird though. Finally got the car running pretty decently and i was going over everything to find what was wrong to make it run 100%. I found the egr pipe was broke off at the intake. Did some digging online and figured out how to delete it. i did a quick rig up(didnt have right stuff at time) and started her up and went for a drive. Some ways ran better others worse. I noticed that there was a small leak on the intake with my rigging. I fixed that and went for a drive and it was running better. Then later that day(3rd time) i went for a drive and thats when i couldn't even make it out of the park and it died and wouldn't restart.

I got this done today! It is so awesome!!! I spent $8 on printing it and $28 on laminating. It's 24inX80in..... I am trying to get the wife to let me frame and hang it on the wall.
Attachment 16640

I agree, its fine art, Frame it
 

If you need to troubleshoot anything you can pull it off the wall, great idea, might do the same myself !

Great Gift Idea
 

For all you ladies out there with a man and a Z in your garage, this would be a cool and unexpected gift.:icon_syda:

If you do have it done its cheaper at office depot. Oh and 79 fsm is the only one that is all one piece PDF. 80 and 81 is pages so you'll have to Photoshop it into one pic. I'm thinking about doing it because it's in color. Office depot said it'll be like $70 to do it in color and lamenate for the same size.

Update....

The PO bought a new distributor with icm on it so I'm warranting it out so I will know tomorrow afternoon if it was the problem.

UPDATE March 11....

So today I bought a coil, timing light, got the whole distributor swapped out, pulled plugs and cleaned/gapped them. It started it up and ran. I adjusted timing and it ran even better. Only thing was it was blowing black smoke with a tinge of blue like crazy. I took her for a drive and ran pretty decently. Only thing was when i held it to the floor it was popping a lot and even back firing some. She would stall out when I let the rpm's drop back down but I figured it was because I had the idle screw to tight so I was going to adjust it when i got home. Got home and she stalled out so i said screw it dinner was waiting I'll do it after i eat. After I ate I went back out and she wouldn't start. Not even getting spark again. I checked fuses found one blown and replaced it and it still wouldn't start. Rechecked timing and its good. I just don't get it. How can it start and run after changing everything and let it sit for a bit and now it wont start. Oh and when it did stall out on my drive(3 times) it wouldn't start till the third time. I am just so confused at this point and don't get it.

MARCH 12

I go out this morning and do some wire checks. Heres what I found

Both wires (blue and black w/white) going to the coil have power(11.7v). Which in turn sends power to both the wires for the ICM. How is this possible? Shouldn't only one have power

I also smoked a fusible link this morning(my fault not the cars). It was the middle one with 2 red and 1 green wire. I replaced it and still nothing.....

I am so lost I am ready to get drunk and bang head on hood. I just suck with wiring and wish I had someone to help. I am thinking I might have fried something else when I fried the fusible link. What are the chances of that happening?

so took distributor to O'rielly and had them look at them and they said they would get me a new one. I then went back home and was checking voltage again. I hit the key and suddenly I am getting spark from the coil(my old one) so I put everything back together and started it up. It was barely running and thats when I remembered I had the ecm unplugged(was going to check that next) so I shut it off, plugged ecm in and started back up. It still kind of ran like shit and was pouring black smoke out. I put it back into time(as close as I could get) and finally after a min it ran on its own with out any extra throttle. Finally it smoothed out real good and reved up real good and no more smoke either. Everything sounded perfect and I was so happy.I let it sit and idle for about 15 min. Then I shut it off.....Guess what, it wouldn't restart and hasn't since. I even put my new coil in and nothing. I am not getting any spark out of the coil again. Any ideas???? I started thinking maybe it had something to do with me disconnecting the computer, so I disconnected it again and let it sit for about the same time as before. Hooked it back up and still nothing

another question....I know lots of questions... will a 81 turbo ecm work on a 79 n/a

well I got it figured out. It was the distributor. 1st icm went bad, 2nd one pick up coil was bad, 3rd one IT RUNS AND DRIVES GREAT!!!!! Well sort of; my timing is off and i cant seem to get it right. I set cyl 1 to TDC and the mark on the pulley is on the zero tick of the teeth(according to FSM). When i start it up and set time I have it fully advanced and it runs the best, but the mark moves about 1/4in from the teeth in the direction towards the dist. If I retard it it just totally dies out. Any thoughts?????

zero is way to low. it should be at least 8 deg. setting to zero is for turbo models with a different dizzy. i usually set mine to 36-38 total timing, which is about 17 initial timing. being your stock you can easily go to 12 deg.

Ok I guess I'm confused. When I set cyl 1 to tdc the timing mark is at zero. If I advance the distributor it kicks the mark on the pulley way off the teeth. If I retard it then the car won't run. I have it fully advanced and it runs pretty good but the mark is about 1/4in from the teeth. I hope this makes sense. I'll try to take pics later.

Am I gonna have to pull out the oil pump and rotate the gear or is something else off. My timing chain is tight on the spark plug side of the motor and loose on other side which is normal from what I've read

March 16

I am so ready just to sell this car. It ran great yesterday. I drove it 40 miles and around town with out any problems other than a little bit of sputtering. Today I go out start it up and its running like crap and wont stay running with out pumping the throttle. I give it full throttle and still wont stay running. I see I have just under a 1/4 of a tank so I decide to go get some gas. i put 5 gal worth in it and start it back up. she starts and runs but like crap. I shut it off pull plugs and fuel filter. some stuff in the filter so I change that. I clean off the plugs and it fires right up on its own, stays running(not good) for like a min and then dies. I go get new plugs and put them in. starts right up but idles rough. I figure thats normal she acts like that when shes cold. Give her some throttle once she starts to warm up and she revs up but then starts acting up again. The thing I notice is when i hold the throttle she will rev up to where she should be but then start dyeing out. it got to the point that she would die with throttle wide open. The exhaust is really blue and smells like gas. I am thinking its either plugged fuel pump or fuel regulator. Any ideas? I really want to keep this car and give her the attention she needs and bring her back but I am at the point i need a dependable car and wondering if its time to cut my losses because I don't have any help with this thing.

Fuel Filter
 

From what I recall in your posts, you had a lot of crap in your tank, changed the filter and ran it with a dirty tank, then cleaned the tank, maybe not perfectly, and I didn't notice if you ever replaced the filter, because it would have been trashed by then. Drop the tank and make sure its clean, have it fixed or replaced if its a mess. Then replace your filter (maybe clean your injectors too). That might be all you need. I know you have been frustrated, but these cars have a lot of history, and getting them back in top running order can be a labor of love or hate if things go wrong all the time, like you have been experiencing. There's no doubt you are on a steep learning curve, but you now have a lot better idea what makes these cars tick now than you ever had before. Don't give up on her, with a little more love you will have a great ride. Very few things that are worth while or rewarding are very easy. Keep your chin up :)

Hey thanks. I really appreciated that. I was wondering if my pump is plugged up. I did put a new filter in recently and that's what I checked today but it was still good but I still changed it out.

SUCCESS!!!!! Well hopefully.....
I think I figured out the problem. I've been working on it so long I forgot I had tweaked the MAF some because I read that they can go out of tune. Weeeelllll.....I never reset it back. I feel so stupid now. I got it close to what it was gotta tweak it some more tomorrow. I had the cops called on me because its so loud. Stupid neighbor I've been dealing with on other bull crap has it out for me.... but what ever. So I gotta check the link again(if i can find it) on tuning the maf and setting back to normal(hopefully)

Thanks again. I am sure you will hear from me again....I hope not to soon though

Quick question for clarification. My 79 is a federal car so that means I don't need a cat converter correct? According to the FSM it looks like it has a pre-muffler instead. Thats not the same thing as a converter is it? I have 2 muffler shops in town saying I have to have a converter on it. Oh also I can't find a O2 sensor and I don't see anything in the FSM about one so does that mean I don't need one?

Time to break out some jams. !!! My first z did stupid crap like yours. Fill her up with premium and fuel injector cleaner. Find a close interstate and treat her like a dirty whore. Black blue white gray poured out of mine for 300 miles then she was a daily driver.

79 didnt have a cat unless it was a california car. it wont have an o2 sensor either. your local laws and emissions will dictate if you need a cat. i run a test pipe in mine and dump a cat in for the testing. it never wears out that way too. in 2014 our testing is getting thrown away cause its not worth it anymore cause all the old cars are gone to the point it doesnt matter.

Actually they started putting cats in '75. I know I learned the hard way with my Firebird, when they failed me the last time. And that is for non California cars. ;)

You're right SHADY I don't have either. So here is the question. I need to figure out a way to check my air/fuel ratio because I know it's off. Is there a way of doing this with out having a O2? I know I could put a bung in my exhaust for a O2 and then have to wire it up and then get the gauge but I really don't want to go though all that.

Oh and I finally figured out what was up with my car. The previous owner swapped the dist. out so when I had to I put the bolt for the right side of the bracket in the same spot he did. For shits and giggles the other day I pulled it out and set the screw to the other side of the bracket, centered the left side up, and set initial timing to 10. Started it up and it idled and reved under no load perfectly. I got in the car drove slowly off and it was running good and has all week. last night i replaced the belts because the alt belt was to long and it wouldn't get fully tight and today she's running a little rough. Back to popping some and idles a bit rough and I can smell gas under acceleration (that's usually when it pops). I'm thinking I need to adjust timing again with having correct tension on the belts.

If anyone can get me some pics of their maf i would greatly appreciate it. i need to figure out where the sweeper arm should be with the car off. I need to rebase it. also I need to figure out (if it can be explained) how tight that spring/gear should be. PO messed with it and didn't mark factory settings.

Ok so just redid the timing. Initial I set a 8° and put distributor dead center(left adjustment side), right side is all the way in the "up" spot. I disconnected the vac advance hose, started it up and let it warm up.. It idles at 18° 20°. Is that fine because it done run and drive good, exhaust smells like exhaust, normal color(it's cold here), and no fuel smell. What degree should it be at idle with out vac advance?

ok so I have been doing some research on rear diff. but I would like some clarification. from what I have read my 79 5-speed does have the r200 in it as does my 8/81 turbo automatic. Is this correct because if it does then there is no need for me to waste time swapping the whole rear end out.

next problem. i got all the struts/shocks, sway bar bushings/endlinks, both out tie rods, driver side inner replaced. I cannot get the pass inner out of the center link. I don't want to remove it(center link) because its still pretty decent but I am thinking I will have to. The problem is I cant find one for less than $250. Next I was thinking of swapping to rack and pinion but then i would have wasted money on all 4 tie rods and sleeves. so I am not sure what to do. will my 81 turbo rack and associated parts work on mine. both cars do have power steering.

thanks for the help

So here's what I got.

1979 280zx daily driver
1981 280zxt parts car with total reworked motor and a p90 head

QUESTION:
Is there anything from the 81 i can put on my 79 to make it better?

I have been doing some reading and i now know i cant put the whole head. The cams are different so would that do anything? Could i swap the pistons out of the 81 and then use the head?

I have done alot of reading tonight on the different combos these engines came with and the numbers of each. It got me wondering if there is some kind of frankenmotor i can come up with that is better than what i have. At this point I am not looking for top end, more like acceleration. I do know that at this point I do not want to go turbo. Yes I know I can buy new parts for mine and up grade, but why by new upgrades if I can use what I have to gain something for the time being. I could be just shooting in the dark here though and totally stupid for asking but hey never know

Oh and just for clarification I am not looking to be spoon fed. It seems other sites have a problem when i ask stuff like this. i dont mind reading its just i am new to the Z and don't have much knowledge on them or know good places to look.

If you are not going to run the turbo then no. The Turbo engine running WITH OUT boost actually has lower compression than the normal aspirating version.

Yea the more I read that's what I was thinking. Oh well it was worth a shot. Never know unless you ask or read.

Sweetness!!!! Just figured out my turbo parts cat has the bigger swaybar..23mm I believe. Now to see if the rear is too

Attachment 16488
Did this today.