NismoPick

So you're saying to use a Z31 engine harness? Turbo or N/A? Do I still use the 280zx turbo distrib?
Dude! I'm gettin excited!

jfairladyz

I just finished talking to GReddy and they say the original E-Manage is fully compatible with the 280zx ECU and AFM. I'm assuming that this would also be true for the AFC since they are essentially the same thing. It's just a matter of finding the proper settings to make the unit compatible with the AFM. GReddy's tech department seems pretty willing to help as does this company: www.vertexmotorsports.com. There was just an HKS F-Con that was specifically programmed for the L28 and even included an L28 specific wiring harness on ebay. But it looks like somebody already used the buy it now feature

And for the Z31 swap you dont need the whole distributor. Just the crank angle sensor and wheel from inside the distibutor. They swap over to the ZXT distributor. All the Z31 distributors, turbo or NA, were the same.

lifegrddude

Nismopick, yeah if you still want to keep your stock efi but don't want to use the z31 maf/ecu setup, just swap in the connectors. They are identical to the S130's. Turbo or naturally aspirated doesn't matter as the ecu connectors are the same on Z31's. The ecu is located on the right side of the car instead of the left. They're several years fresher than ours and they seem to hold up better than the s130's for some reason. All you have to do is chop the wires and reconnect them pin for pin. But the Z31 does have a few pins missing so grab a couple of connectors and use one as a parts supplier for the other connectors.

If you want to swap over to the z31 ecu/maf setup, it's like Jfairladyz stated, grab the chopper wheel outta the distributor and that's the last piece of the puzzle along with the ecu and maf. The wiring is really easy after you do it the first time.

Anyways, after I get done with my zxt's tailpipe inspection aka the dreaded smogging sniffer test, I'm going to try to use an MSD boost timing master and some 440cc injectors. The BTM should allow me to retard the timing as the boost increases since ecu won't be doing it with the larger injectors. If the 440's fail, I'll just use the 370cc's I have as backup as I know those will work for sure.

Jfairladyz, if you do go the E-manage route, keep us posted on how it works out for you. I'm interested in seeing how other programs and alternatives to a complete stand alone fuel management system work. I'm sure the E-manage will allow you to make more power than my Z is on the SAFC alone.

jfairladyz

I doubt it would make any more power than the AFC is capable of. The ultimate is a little more advanced than the standard E-Manage and AFC but GReddy said they can't guarantee it'll work correctly with the L28's EFI system. They said the E-Manage has been used and it works great. It is truly universal. I've asked around and the E-Manage and AFC are basically the exact same thing. They're just packaged differently from two different companies. They do the same thing. I'm strongly leaning toward the AFC though cause it has the built in display that the E-Manage does not have. You can either tune it via ***** or you can fork over another $130 for the programming setup to tune via a laptop. Another unit I'm going to start looking into is Blitz's R-FIT. It's also a universal piggy back and has the display unit like the AFC. GReddy is a great unit but it starts to get costly when you start adding up all the additional crap you have to buy for it. The AFC seems to come with everything you pretty much need to start tuning.

SHADY280

so what do these systems cost anyway, im interested, but cost always rules, im almost thinking megasquirt. i just want rid of these haynus stock no adjustible components.

jfairladyz

A standard megasquirt system will probably run you less than one of these piggybacks. But you have to tune it from scratch. With a piggy back you're simply compensating. You can install 500cc injectors and the reprogram the fuel curve so the computer keeps the mixture right at idle and then really starts dumping the fuel at WOT. BUT, and this is a big one, you are stuck with the basic fuel map of the factory ECU. So if you're looking to make HUGE horsepower then a piggyback probably isn't a great idea. It simply tricks the ECU into doing something it wouldn't do on its own. The E-Manage goes for about $350+ but the support tool costs another $130 or so. Total is about $500. The AFC is a lot less. I think it only comes in at just over $200. THe R-FIT is just over $300. A preassembled megasquirt will run you more than an AFC will. And a preassembled MSnS will run probably in the high $300 range up into the $400's. Plus you have to source all the compatible sensors and what not to work with the Megasquirt. These piggybacks work with what you got. As far as I can tell so far the AFC is the best bang for the buck. Like I said I'm going to research a little more into Blitz's unit too. GReddy is out of the question cause it's cost is not justified.

lww

MSnS v2 = ummm tasty

That's my plan for my 240Z rolling chassis. Still have to re-build my turbo motor and fabricate... well, everything!

Of course, that's after my ZXT is done and I've finished with my 240Z resto-mod project...

So, given my current progress, like 8 years from now, it'll be done!

SHADY280

so i should look for a complete system then, which ones are the piggybacks? i just want adjustible hp. and alot of it, i want to do 13.0 sec in the 1/4. and then change the program and pass emissions. so then i would use a 3 wire map sensor from like a chev right?

jfairladyz

A piggy back can do that for you. I'm not sure about the AFC but Blitz unit can store up to 64 fuel maps and has two channels so you can instantly switch between two modes. Tune one channel for performance and the other for emissions. A piggy back is just a lot easier to work with than a stand alone unless you either know what you're doing or know somebody who knows what they are doing. Or you could pay an arm and a leg for a shop to tune it for you

Right now I'm working on getting a free AFC. My buddies got a heavily modded 3000GT and he's running the S-AFC right now. But he's the type that has to have the best of everything so he's looking into full stand alone. If he goes that route he said I can have his AFC. If I get it I'm going to use it with the 280zx ecu and AFM. According to Apex'i reps it can be done. They said the easiest way (other than finding someone else who's done it) is to use an O-Scope to get the AFM's voltage map and then compare it to the maps of tested AFC applications until you find one that matches up. Then you simply use that vehicles settings. Their techs are supposed to have that information handy so I can submit my map to them or vice versa and we can figure out which setting to use. From there it's just adjusting the fuel map per the cars setup. My car is basically stock for now but a little extra fuel in the top end will definitely help. Then later on when I start upping the boost and utizlizing bigger injectors I can just tinker the fuel map again.

If you consider what a RRFPR goes for the $215 or so that an AFC costs new is really a good idea once it's figured out for the 280zx.

SHADY, the only advantages a stand alone has over a piggy back is you get to design the fuel map from scratch and with some units you get the choice of a timing map too. There are no limitations. But to some thats also a drawback. Tuning from scratch is not easy if you dont know what you're doing. With the piggy back you just add or lessen the fuel where you need to and thats it. If you need to mess with timing in extreme detail then a standalone is the way to go. But if fuel is all you are concerned about then piggy back has you covered.

And if you want to decipher between a stand alone and a piggy back just look at the price tag. With the exception of MegaSquirt, a standalone generally ranges from over $1000 to over $3000 for the top of the line. A piggyback like the AFC, like I said ranges from low $200's on up. Most standalones aren't going to come with any sensors either. So you'll have to add that to the expense. Then there's the expense of tuning if you can do it yourself. And that alone can double your costs.

lww

J, you keep justifying my MSnS solution! You can get a fully built system for $300, add another $200 worth of sensors and BAM! You got a completely tuneable system. Of course, mine is going in a '72 240Z, so I don't have to worry too much about the smog ****'s and a missing AFM.

Hard to believe the MAF conversion is actually illegal in CA. It's all part of their fascist plot to eliminate older vehicles forcing people to buy new(er) cars as a gift to the large automotive manufacturers political contributions under the guise of reducing pollution... Where's that grassy knoll again?

jfairladyz

I'm keeping my Z a street car and I'm not going to be needing all the stand alone perks. Plus I'm back in CA. If I stay here then it'll be alot easier to just swap the injectors and turn the AFC off then it would be to swap out the entire standalone system with the harness and all its sensors. In the end, from a performance standpoint theres no beating the end results of stand alone. If I was building a racing macine then I'd go for the MSnS myself. I'm very handy with electronics and soldering so I could save a few bucks and assemble it myself. But I just dont need all that right now. Plus if I can get the AFC for free then why not make an advancement in S130 tunability for all of man kind Basically if I had to choose between a RRFPR and a piggyback for the same basic price, I'd take the piggy back. I mean, If all you want to do is be able to up the boost and run bigger injectors then $215 is really hard to beat

SHADY280

with afc can i get rid of that stupid afm we all got and go maf for better space usage and reliability. i got a rrfpr, it hasnt done a thing for me, when its hooked up and i rev the car it goes down to 20psi then up to 40psi all from when i set it at 30psi to start

NismoPick

You do know that RR FPR's are meant for forced induction engines right? Hence the name "Rising Rate." It won't do anything spectacular on an n/a car.

SHADY280

i wondered about that, but the one i got can also be used on carburated engines to depending on the spring one uses. i used it to cure high end detonation due to high cr's used to be 11.7:1 now its 10.8:1.

jfairladyz

AFC can't get rid of the AFM unless you switch to the Z31 setup. MegaSquirt will get rid of the AFM though, as will any stand alone unit.

lifegrddude

Good news, the SAFC can be used in conjunction with the Z32 maf. That gives you the potential for ~450hp before you max out the flow capabilities of the maf. You'd need larger injectors of couse and an MSD BTM, but I figure you can probably end up running at least 300-350hp on dog **** 91 octane fuel.

lww, haha yeah it's all a conspiracy or something. I was pissed when the Governator signed the bill ending the rolling 30 year exemption. The missing afm during inspection was told to me by my cousin's friend who's a police officer, and a local smog shop. If an afm wasn't required, I'd be sitting here trying to figure out the MSnS setup. Loads more tuning potential, and the engine bay will be void of the 1000ft of wiring and vacuum lines.

Oh yeah, before I forget, to run the Z32 maf, just set the "in" setting of the sensor to 2 instead of 4. So the screen should read, 2 IN 4 OUT.

datsunl28et

Hey guys, IM a newbie here but I have been following this thread. I wankt to give this Z31 ECU a try. I have the ECU out of Z31T and the MAF. getting thie ECU clip from the car as well. Other then an safc what else do I need? I also have the Z31 stock 320cc injectors and wondered if I could use those as well?

Thanx Nick.

NismoPick

Welcome to ZDriver. Read this: http://jimwolftechnology.com/wolfpdf...%20UPGRADE.PDF It's basic instruc's on how to upgrade to the Z31 ecu. I am in the process of collecting the needed items to do it.

datsunl28et

So what else do I need? It does not make a list including what all I need for my car. lifegrddude was using a Z31 maf and they want to use a mustang cobra maf, so does the Z31 just plug in or do you have to convert wiring for it to?

NismoPick

If you want to use the Z31 maf... use the Z31 maf. The JWT 450hp ecu is programmed for the Cobra maf... but if you have a stock Z31 ecu, use the stock maf. Have you ever done wiring or ecu swaps like this before?

datsunl28et

No I personally have not but my brother is quite capable of it. Just trying to figure out what else i need to complete the Z31 ecu swap. Also wanted to know if the stock Z31 injectors would work?

NismoPick

yep... Z31 injectors are the same as the 280zx injectors. Make sure you have the turbo ones tho.

datsunl28et

thanks bro. the stockZ31T injectors are bigger then the stock ZXT injectors right? I was told they were 320cc injectors.

NismoPick

By saying "ZXT" I imagine you mean "280ZXT" ... Z31T & 280ZXT injectors are the same size, that's why they are swap-able. I believe they are rated @ 259cc. There are some SVO injectors that will work & older Supra injectors. But anything really higher than ~350cc will throw off the ecu no matter how much adjusting. To upgrade injectors, you really need a re-programmed or aftermarket ecu.

Search around on the internet & on this forum. There's tons of info about this.

datsunl28et

sweet! thanks for the info.